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@Mutiny. In 1962, when JFK was president, Greenville had a modern 4-line interstate spur that connected it directly to I-26, Columbia and (by 1964) Charleston. And I-85 also linked Greenville to the rest of the Piedmont urban corridor. That is eons before Savannah got I-16 (1978)--and I-16 was still under construction in places until 1980. Columbus and Augusta did not get interstates till early 1980s. Carolina cities were thus situated to take advantage of America's biggest boom time, the 1960s and early '70s. To this day, Columbus only has a "spur", and it's a disgrace that a metro area of more than 300,000 with a major military installation has only a spur in 2013. Also, let's not underestimate Augusta's size: it was always comparable to Carolina MSAs in size; it's still larger than many NC metros and has... ONE interstate highway in 2013. I believe it would be much larger if it had had the interstates that Carolina cities had in the 1960s. Georgia has promoted an Atlanta-centric agenda to the detriment of all other urban areas in the state. North and South Carolina cities suffered no such burden, and their state governments gave all their cities a fair shake.
@Mutiny. In 1962, when JFK was president, Greenville had a modern 4-line interstate spur that connected it directly to I-26, Columbia and (by 1964) Charleston. And I-85 also linked Greenville to the rest of the Piedmont urban corridor. That is eons before Savannah got I-16 (1978)--and I-16 was still under construction in places until 1980. Columbus and Augusta did not get interstates till early 1980s. Carolina cities were thus situated to take advantage of America's biggest boom time, the 1960s and early '70s. To this day, Columbus only has a "spur", and it's a disgrace that a metro area of more than 300,000 with a major military installation has only a spur in 2013. Also, let's not underestimate Augusta's size: it was always comparable to Carolina MSAs in size; it's still larger than many NC metros and has... ONE interstate highway in 2013. I believe it would be much larger if it had had the interstates that Carolina cities had in the 1960s. Georgia has promoted an Atlanta-centric agenda to the detriment of all other urban areas in the state. North and South Carolina cities suffered no such burden, and their state governments gave all their cities a fair shake.
Your argument only centers on interstate highways and isn't sufficient to prove your point. Again, look at the Carolina cities in relation to Atlanta--Atlanta still dwarfs them. Interstate connections alone cannot be the source of the difference between Atlanta and the rest of the state's cities.
And at least Georgia does a much better job of maintaining its interstate highways.
@Mutiny. In 1962, when JFK was president, Greenville had a modern 4-line interstate spur that connected it directly to I-26, Columbia and (by 1964) Charleston. And I-85 also linked Greenville to the rest of the Piedmont urban corridor. That is eons before Savannah got I-16 (1978)--and I-16 was still under construction in places until 1980. Columbus and Augusta did not get interstates till early 1980s. Carolina cities were thus situated to take advantage of America's biggest boom time, the 1960s and early '70s. To this day, Columbus only has a "spur", and it's a disgrace that a metro area of more than 300,000 with a major military installation has only a spur in 2013. Also, let's not underestimate Augusta's size: it was always comparable to Carolina MSAs in size; it's still larger than many NC metros and has... ONE interstate highway in 2013. I believe it would be much larger if it had had the interstates that Carolina cities had in the 1960s. Georgia has promoted an Atlanta-centric agenda to the detriment of all other urban areas in the state. North and South Carolina cities suffered no such burden, and their state governments gave all their cities a fair shake.
It is crazy Columbus only has a spur interstate. Hopefully I-14 and the expansion of I-185 will come to fruition one day. As the largest business center in Georgia outside of Atlanta and home to one of the largest military installations in the world, Columbus is overdue.
It is crazy Columbus only has a spur interstate. Hopefully I-14 and the expansion of I-185 will come to fruition one day. As the largest business center in Georgia outside of Atlanta and home to one of the largest military installations in the world, Columbus is overdue.
After reading this thread there is so much to respond to....
First just a simple reply to this particular comment.
I've been down to Columbus a good bit. My great Uncle moved down there decades ago.
First, A spur isn't bad. It gives you guys more commuting and trucking capacity just for your city. There is hardly any through-traffic on a spur.
But I wanted to say Columbus has a series of state funded parkways and expressways too. It isn't quite that it was left untouched and unconsidered.
Augusta also has several of these as well.
now to everyone and the whole conversation...
I haven't spent much time in Macon, but it seems to be ideally located at a junction and with a bypass, yet it hasn't attracted the same type of growth Columbus and Augusta has.... so I don't think that is the key reason Columbus and Augusta don't attract more ... ummm "goodies."
Macon is also not without good railroad connections. It is a regional hub for Norfolk Southerns railroads in the state.
Savannah has a huge port the State funds and supports (and the whole state uses). It has the I-95, which is one of the countries busiest freeways with direct connections to Florida (the Country's 4th largest economy) and the northeast. I-16 links it with Macon, Atlanta, and the midwest rather well. It just isn't that important geographic lynchpin.
But first things first... Atlanta didn't just pop up as the regional power house in 1960. It was larger in the region way before that.
It was built from nothing at a major Railroad junction for the Southern Region. The key important thing to look at is why it was built there.
Atlanta is the most northern point to have a freeway or rail junction to route goods and materials from the south to the Midwest or the northeast w/o an Appalachian Mountain Crossing (which makes moving freight more expensive...not just the cost of building a road or railroad)
That is the real reason Atlanta is the crossroads of so many railroads and and and freeways together. it was also the reason many of these junctions -had to be- placed in the general area where Atlanta is. It is also the reason why Atlanta grew so fast from day one.
It wasn't the state giving Atlanta goodies. It was the sheer demand from the private market, because Atlanta was the cheapest point to move raw materials and goods from both the northeast, the midwest, and throughout the south. In a sense, because of the mountains, Atlanta is an important lynchpin.
I also wouldn't characterize Atlanta as being given all of these "goodies." I would characterize Atlanta as a place that grew so rapidly that it has always been a few steps behind trying to keep up. Congestion has always been an issue for us to overcome and something that always held us back a bit. Many of Georgia's cities don't have as much congestion as Atlanta. There isn't anything in the road system stopping them. They just weren't geographically lucky to be the lynchpin that would make it the South's most important transportation hub.
As far as other goodies like our airport and the Aquarium. We need to remember the state didn't just decide to give that to Atlanta. Those are primarily home grown funded things. That airport is the city's, not the state's. It was us that made the investment to make such a successful airport. ...and again we got lucky from geography. We just happen to be equidistant between Chicago, NYC, Miami, and Houston/Dallas (most of the nation's largest cities not on the west coast). We were naturally positioned to become a major air hub. Once we made that investment, pure private market demand took over. It wasn't given to us, we just took advantage of a lucky geographic asset.
The aquarium was built primarily through private funding and donations. It completely operates itself off of its own income w/o state or local funding and was primarily built through corporate and private donations (large thanks to Bernard Marcus). The land was donated by the Coca-Cola company.
Furthermore, almost every budget analysis of the state of Georgia I have ever seen shows the Atlanta Metropolitan region pays out more money to the state than it gets back. We are subsidizing rural Georgia to a large extent (especially though things like the GRIP program, large agricultural tourism programs, etc). The only portion of Atlanta that seems to be at equilibrium between tax receipts and funding is Atlanta exurban areas, It is the core urban and suburban areas not getting it's share.
As far as the earlier statements about political power.... A little bit unfair IMO. We live in a state that is constantly run by governors from rural South Georgia.... not Atlanta.
The state even strictly controls how local governments can tax themselves and how they can use that money. (God help the city of Atlanta is the legislature never gave them that special 1-cent sales tax (MOST) to pay for all the sewer upgrades...Atlanta would have been paying sewage fines out of their general budget for decades to come, like that did all throughout the '90s)
Atlanta is very much politically divided. As a whole it might be slightly more democratic, but still nearly half the region votes Republican and in legislation they tend to get along with rural Republicans far better than they do urban democrats (hince the reason exurban and rural areas get more funding from the state).
This also doesn't even begin to mention how severely gerrymandered our state is. Most of the state legislation come from long narrow districts diluting Metro Atlanta's vote with rural residents around the North Georgia that bitterly complain about Atlanta.
But nonetheless, Atlanta is more politically constrained by the state.... not in control of the state government.
Just look at how the TSPLOST was handled. It was entirely Republican written with their ideals in mind. It was written in a way that divided most regions, rather than brought them together. It wasn't written by united legislatures from Metro Atlanta. It was written by suburban and exurban Republicans, along with rural Republicans.
Last I checked, Nathan Deal was from some place in rural Georgia called Washington County, Sonny Perdue is from Perry, and Saxby Chambliss is from Moultrie. MARTA is the largest transit agency in the country not funded by the state and we haven't had any major projects to help relieve our congestion whether it be through transit or road improvements except for those ramp meters, HOT lanes, or the opening of the shoulder on 400. BUT, they have widened several rural roads with one being 19 between Americus and Leesburg which barely has any traffic in which was funded by Atlantans. Yet, 575 through Cobb and Cherokee is still a rural highway which is a parking lot at rush hour, MARTA fares keep rising as service is being cut, and the 285/400 interchange is still a death trap. Many of our projects are funded by us such as the streetcar project and just like what was stated earlier, Metro Atlanta puts farrr more into the state than it gets out. People need to remember, whats good for the metro, is whats good for the state, and if Atlanta declines, then God help this state as it would probably turn into Mississippi or maybe even something worse. I definitely do not see where the state diverts most of its attention to Atlanta as almost everything we have, was brought in by local investors. But on topic, I do love visiting Savannah and the restaurants there are amazing..Savannah is definitely an amazing city with cool architecture and also has a cool vibe to it too. I also love that its near the beach. But in terms of living, I'd have to go with Atlanta hands down.
I wholeheartedly agree with you, I believe if the state govt were to realize that it is Atlanta thats running the state and invest more into the metro area, we could accomplish ALOT more, such as expanding transit, and upgrading the aging infrastructure intown, etc..
But first things first... Atlanta didn't just pop up as the regional power house in 1960. It was larger in the region way before that.
It was built from nothing at a major Railroad junction for the Southern Region. The key important thing to look at is why it was built there.
Atlanta is the most northern point to have a freeway or rail junction to route goods and materials from the south to the Midwest or the northeast w/o an Appalachian Mountain Crossing (which makes moving freight more expensive...not just the cost of building a road or railroad)
That is the real reason Atlanta is the crossroads of so many railroads and and and freeways together. it was also the reason many of these junctions -had to be- placed in the general area where Atlanta is. It is also the reason why Atlanta grew so fast from day one.
It wasn't the state giving Atlanta goodies. It was the sheer demand from the private market, because Atlanta was the cheapest point to move raw materials and goods from both the northeast, the midwest, and throughout the south. In a sense, because of the mountains, Atlanta is an important lynchpin.
Good stuff here. To tie this in with what I was saying earlier, Atlanta's strategic geographic location is probably a major reason why it attracted so many forward-thinking business types from its earliest days. Otherwise, even with this geographic advantage, it could have neared its peak long ago much like cities that were built on waterways and river transport did, and even other railroad hubs.
You Atlanta boys crack me up. So does Mutiny, our Carolina naysayer. Of course Atlanta contributes "more than it gets back"--an affluent metropolis of 5 million has more to give than the rural outback does. What other brilliant discovery will you come up with next? For 50 years now, no other southern metros the size of Augusta, Savannah, Macon and Columbus have been as dissed by their state as Augusta, Savannah, Macon and Columbus have. In 1960, metros in NC, SC, AL and FL were largely in the same population league as GA's second-tier cities (not Charlotte, Birmingham, Jacksonville or Miami, but all the rest), but the former received far more generous federal largesse and state infrastructure. Why did GA's second-tier cities wait almost 20 years later to get their interstates? Most have only one to this day. The I-95 corridor was going to happen anyway, so it's no gift to Savannah (just good luck that it wasn't rerouted near Decatur). We can all thank the "Atlanta-firsters" for this sorry state of unfairness and neglect. Just because Atlanta was dynamic and "visionary" in 1955 doesn't mean its politicians had to neglect every other GA city. But that's what they did. Atlanta was, and remains, greedy and narcissistic--as CWKimbro and smb90's posts make abundantly clear. The combined legislative might of metro Atlanta did GA's second tier in, and so it continues. Not a conspiracy against the second tier--I didn't say it was--but a case of abject favoritism and neglect.
You Atlanta boys crack me up. So does Mutiny, our Carolina naysayer. Of course Atlanta contributes "more than it gets back"--an affluent metropolis of 5 million has more to give than the rural outback does. What other brilliant discovery will you come up with next? For 50 years now, no other southern metros the size of Augusta, Savannah, Macon and Columbus have been as dissed by their state as Augusta, Savannah, Macon and Columbus have. In 1960, metros in NC, SC, AL and FL were largely in the same population league as GA's second-tier cities (not Charlotte, Birmingham, Jacksonville or Miami, but all the rest), but the former received far more generous federal largesse and state infrastructure. Why did GA's second-tier cities wait almost 20 years later to get their interstates? Most have only one to this day. The I-95 corridor was going to happen anyway, so it's no gift to Savannah (just good luck that it wasn't rerouted near Decatur). We can all thank the "Atlanta-firsters" for this sorry state of unfairness and neglect. Just because Atlanta was dynamic and "visionary" in 1955 doesn't mean its politicians had to neglect every other GA city. But that's what they did. Atlanta was, and remains, greedy and narcissistic--as CWKimbro and smb90's posts make abundantly clear. The combined legislative might of metro Atlanta did GA's second tier in, and so it continues. Not a conspiracy against the second tier--I didn't say it was--but a case of abject favoritism and neglect.
So you have a gripe against the state legislature (and the feds) due to interstates in the second-tier cities? OK fine, but it has practically nothing to do with why Atlanta is the behemoth that it is compared to the rest of the state's cities, which is your argument. Atlanta is still a behemoth compared to the Carolina cities that got interstates earlier than GA's second-tier cities. These are really two separate issues.
Augusta, Savannah, Columbus, Macon, Athens, etc. weren't going to be the size of Charlotte, Raleigh, Nashville, etc.--let alone Atlanta--with just another primary interstate running through them. But I guess Atlanta just makes an easy target to blame.
I think the opposing points have been explained quite thoroughly, but you're committed to your POV no matter what. So I suppose we're simply at an impasse.
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