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Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
4,069 posts, read 7,313,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beavercreek33
First off, do not sit there and bash Cleveland, but sugarcoat Chicago. That is exactly what you are doing, so do not state otherwise.
You are all upset because I feel Cleveland should follow the paths of New York City or Boston. Statistics show that both cities are more progressive than Chicago. All I stated was one thing, and you have to go on a rant. Sorry, but Cleveland DOES need to follow Boston or NYC's way of thinking over Chicago's.
You can throw development in anyone's face. But many have argued that doesn't say much. Development of skyscrapers and a changing skyline doesn't even come close to representing a city. On a small scale, yes. But nothing to write home about.
Second off, don't sit there and downgrade Cleveland. Cleveland has so much to offer, but I think you fail to or refuse to realize this. Cleveland is a major banking, bio tech, medical, and high tech based city. It has had an unemployment rate below the national average, is home to several fortune 500 companies, and is one of the few cities in the Midwest with light rail. It has a balanced budget for 2010, quite rare for a major city. It has a great metro parks system, a national park 30 minutes from downtown, and has one of the fastest growing downtown populations in the country. Cleveland is home to Playhouse Square, the second largest performing arts district in the country after New York City, University Circle home to the Cleveland Museum of Art, one of the best art museums in the world. As well as Severance Hall, one of the best orchestas in the world.
Cleveland has a compact downtown, that is experiencing over 4 billion dollars in development. Projects like the new convention center/medical mart, new casino, and the hundreds of new condo units in the works. A downtown population of over 14,000 and a 32.2% growth rate since 2000.
Cleveland has great city neighborhoods like Tremont, Ohio City, Little Italy, and Slavic Village. Little Italy is one of the best in the country. University Circle is full of construction cranes and developing its own skyline.
You can sit there and say what you want about Cleveland. But do not bash it because I feel it needs to follow the likings of two other cities. Cleveland has a lot to offer like Chicago, just on a smaller scale which is pretty understandable because of the smaller population. 433,000 compared to 2.8 million... come on!
Cleveland is probaly the second best city in the Midwest as far as cultural ammenities goes. It has light rail, which larger cities like Milwaukee and Detroit do not even have. University Hospitals and The Cleveland Clinic plan on adding thousands of jobs each next year. Cleveland is extremely underrated!!!
No one is saying it doesn't have problems. Which major city doesn't? But don't bash it because someone stated something you didn't like.
Also, I do a lot of business up in Cleveland. I work for Dayton based Caresource, and with Cleveland's medical based companies, we find we spend a lot of time in the city. I have run into plenty of young professionals living in Cleveland from New York and Chicago because it is cheaper. Also, many families from Detroit and Buffalo which explains itself.
Geez. Why so defensive?
I did not "bash" anything. All I did was make a few honest observations, in addition to correcting a very uninformed statement on your part about Chicago's alleged population "decline". Was that statement to go unchallenged? Perhaps it's you who did the bashing here.
Yep, Cleveland is all that. But then why are people leaving Cleveland in droves, but not relocating there in droves from other places? The latest statistics I read said Cleveland, in the past decade, suffered the largest population declines of any US city except New Orleans... and I might add that Mother Nature gave New Orleans some help with that in 2005.
Cleveland's unemployment rate is below the national average... Might I suggest that the "official" employment statistics don't present the total picture? For example, a college graduate who works as a cashier or coffee barista because he/she can't find suitable employment in their chosen field doesn't show up as "unemployed"... So what?
Why is Cleveland always at or near the top of the list of US cities with the highest poverty rates?
And Slavic Village is one of Cleveland's "great" neighborhoods? Apparently you haven't kept up with what's happened there the past few years. The neighborhood has gained international notoriety as being Ground Zero of the national foreclosure crisis. Now one out of every three houses there is vacant, boarded up, stripped of copper plumbing, etc. Property values are collapsing. Go to the Slavic Village forum on Cleveland.com and read all the complaints and horror stories about undesirables moving in, crime skyrocketing, etc.
Ohio City, Tremont... Yes, many good things going on there, but crime and safety are still big issues. Give me Chicago's Old Town, Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Wicker Park, etc., etc., any day.
The topic of this thread is "What is Cleveland missing?" All I did was reply with my honest assessments. If you feel that NYC or Boston are better examples for Cleveland to follow than Chicago or Charlotte, fine with me. But please do not misrepresent the facts ("Chicago's population is also in decline", etc.) or accuse me of "bashing". All I know is what I see. And I see plenty of former Clevelanders (myself among them) who relocated to Chicago and like it better here.
As another former resident of the Cleveland area who resides in Chicago, I agree with Andrew61's take. Cleveland needs to get a more upscale demographic living in the city's neighborhoods and increase the downtown population. This would eventually lead to a larger tax base for funding improvements on a city wide basis as well as improve the city's image. If Cleveland is to improve itself it would likely happen in a similar fashion as Chicago due to the existing demographics and layout of the city. Chicago has the strong downtown population and upscale city neighborhoods that Cleveland should strive for, albeit on a smaller scale. The lack of middle to upper class residents and healthy commercial districts within Cleveland's city neighborhoods are very noticeable when compared to Chicago. I know Chicago has more than its share of run down areas, but it also supports a large inner-city professional population that Cleveland does not.
. The lack of middle to upper class residents and healthy commercial districts within Cleveland's city neighborhoods are very noticeable when compared to Chicago. I know Chicago has more than its share of run down areas, but it also supports a large inner-city professional population that Cleveland is starting to get.
First off, do not sit there and bash Cleveland, but sugarcoat Chicago. That is exactly what you are doing, so do not state otherwise.
You are all upset because I feel Cleveland should follow the paths of New York City or Boston. Statistics show that both cities are more progressive than Chicago. All I stated was one thing, and you have to go on a rant. Sorry, but Cleveland DOES need to follow Boston or NYC's way of thinking over Chicago's.
You can throw development in anyone's face. But many have argued that doesn't say much. Development of skyscrapers and a changing skyline doesn't even come close to representing a city. On a small scale, yes. But nothing to write home about.
Second off, don't sit there and downgrade Cleveland. Cleveland has so much to offer, but I think you fail to or refuse to realize this. Cleveland is a major banking, bio tech, medical, and high tech based city. It has had an unemployment rate below the national average, is home to several fortune 500 companies, and is one of the few cities in the Midwest with light rail. It has a balanced budget for 2010, quite rare for a major city. It has a great metro parks system, a national park 30 minutes from downtown, and has one of the fastest growing downtown populations in the country. Cleveland is home to Playhouse Square, the second largest performing arts district in the country after New York City, University Circle home to the Cleveland Museum of Art, one of the best art museums in the world. As well as Severance Hall, one of the best orchestas in the world.
Cleveland has a compact downtown, that is experiencing over 4 billion dollars in development. Projects like the new convention center/medical mart, new casino, and the hundreds of new condo units in the works. A downtown population of over 14,000 and a 32.2% growth rate since 2000.
Cleveland has great city neighborhoods like Tremont, Ohio City, Little Italy, and Slavic Village. Little Italy is one of the best in the country. University Circle is full of construction cranes and developing its own skyline.
You can sit there and say what you want about Cleveland. But do not bash it because I feel it needs to follow the likings of two other cities. Cleveland has a lot to offer like Chicago, just on a smaller scale which is pretty understandable because of the smaller population. 433,000 compared to 2.8 million... come on!
Cleveland is probaly the second best city in the Midwest as far as cultural ammenities goes. It has light rail, which larger cities like Milwaukee and Detroit do not even have. University Hospitals and The Cleveland Clinic plan on adding thousands of jobs each next year. Cleveland is extremely underrated!!!
No one is saying it doesn't have problems. Which major city doesn't? But don't bash it because someone stated something you didn't like.
Also, I do a lot of business up in Cleveland. I work for Dayton based Caresource, and with Cleveland's medical based companies, we find we spend a lot of time in the city. I have run into plenty of young professionals living in Cleveland from New York and Chicago because it is cheaper. Also, many families from Detroit and Buffalo which explains itself.
Dude, you're not writing a brochure on Cleveland. You're a human being having a discussion with another human being. Leave the faux indignation and cloying civic boosterism out of it.
If Slavic Village is a "great city neighborhood," I'm Santa Claus.
I agree that Cleveland needs cohesivness between the county and city government to succeed, also I believe Cleveland needs more upscale downtown shopping like aeropostale, american eagle, a bookstore (these are just examples) and more shopping downtown other than Tower City which has lost its upscale shopping. Cleveland though was awarded the honor of emerging downtowns along with Pittsburgh. As far as jobs go Cleveland was voted #5 in job openings for college graduates in the country (ill find the link later) and #14 in the country for an emerging city for singles as far as nightlife, and jobs. So Cleveland has the pieces in place to emerge to greatness again but it just needs the right leaders in the government to bring the city back. Maybe the new county government structure with 11 members and a county boss will help with that. I also wouldnt mind Cleveland and the county combine together so they wont have to poach things from each other as far as residents, jobs, companies, and development..I think Cleveland is on its way up again.
I did not "bash" anything. All I did was make a few honest observations, in addition to correcting a very uninformed statement on your part about Chicago's alleged population "decline". Was that statement to go unchallenged? Perhaps it's you who did the bashing here.
Yep, Cleveland is all that. But then why are people leaving Cleveland in droves, but not relocating there in droves from other places? The latest statistics I read said Cleveland, in the past decade, suffered the largest population declines of any US city except New Orleans... and I might add that Mother Nature gave New Orleans some help with that in 2005.
Cleveland's unemployment rate is below the national average... Might I suggest that the "official" employment statistics don't present the total picture? For example, a college graduate who works as a cashier or coffee barista because he/she can't find suitable employment in their chosen field doesn't show up as "unemployed"... So what?
Why is Cleveland always at or near the top of the list of US cities with the highest poverty rates?
And Slavic Village is one of Cleveland's "great" neighborhoods? Apparently you haven't kept up with what's happened there the past few years. The neighborhood has gained international notoriety as being Ground Zero of the national foreclosure crisis. Now one out of every three houses there is vacant, boarded up, stripped of copper plumbing, etc. Property values are collapsing. Go to the Slavic Village forum on Cleveland.com and read all the complaints and horror stories about undesirables moving in, crime skyrocketing, etc.
Ohio City, Tremont... Yes, many good things going on there, but crime and safety are still big issues. Give me Chicago's Old Town, Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Wicker Park, etc., etc., any day.
The topic of this thread is "What is Cleveland missing?" All I did was reply with my honest assessments. If you feel that NYC or Boston are better examples for Cleveland to follow than Chicago or Charlotte, fine with me. But please do not misrepresent the facts ("Chicago's population is also in decline", etc.) or accuse me of "bashing". All I know is what I see. And I see plenty of former Clevelanders (myself among them) who relocated to Chicago and like it better here.
A shrinking population is happening in Pittsburgh and Philly (just recently challenged the census), but does that take away from what it offers? No it doesn't. You are sitting there judging a city based on a declining population, now that is a mis representation.
Good, there are plenty of Clevelanders in Chicago. I have meant many from Chicago living in Cleveland. You can sit there and argue with that all you want, but there are.
I mentioned Slavic Village because it has history and tradition. Hopefully it can become a success story like Tremont and Ohio City. And please, don't sit there and act as if Chicago does not have any problems. Because you are painting a rosey picture.
Once again, you say "give me this over this anyday." Of course! You are in a much bigger city. With you throwing out population stats all the time, this should be a no brainer for you.
YOU brought this up, when ALL I did was mention that Cleveland should more follow Boston or New York than Chicago or Charlotte. Charlotte is doing some great things, but it is still sprawling like crazy. The infestment downtown is great, and I really like the fact that they have started up with light rail, but its a newer city and has different priorities. Cleveland, Boston, New York, and Chicago have different mindsets than "newer" cities.
I will say this again, I am not saying does not have it's problems. I think any city today can hide from that fact, unless say Omaha. But to sit there and downgrade Cleveland, and refuse to see what it offers is unjust. Cleveland is definatly a top-ranked city for culture, and has a bright future with its changing economy.
Cleveland's home prices have been some of the fastest growing throughout 2009, and many times has competed with Dallas for the number one spot.
Also, you talk about the brain drain. Notice Illinois is loosing more people than Ohio. Illinois and Ohio are just like the other states on that list though. They are bringing in more people to offset the balance of loss with births, immigration, and from people moving in from other states. Only state on that list that isn't like the others is Michigan. Loosing too many people, and actually declining three years in a row now.
Now you can sit there and say what you want, but I am not getting upset, I am just stating a point on my behalf. God forbid I mention Boston and New York over Chicago.
Dude, you're not writing a brochure on Cleveland. You're a human being having a discussion with another human being. Leave the faux indignation and cloying civic boosterism out of it.
If Slavic Village is a "great city neighborhood," I'm Santa Claus.
Why thank you, for a minute there I thought I was writing my magazine piece. Sorry, what was I thinking?!
When I need your advice on how to write a post, I will send you a PM. Thanks!
Cleveland has many great assets, but every city thinks they have great sports teams, museums, orchestra, hospitals, quality of life; just as every city thinks they are uniquely poised to take advantage of the "green" economy. Even if we are better than most, those factors alone don't make us a great city, they just make us a city. If an asset is generic, its not really an asset its just an attribute.
As far as big cities go, Cleveland is in the middle of the pack. We are just another burg, always have been and always will be. Where Cleveland starts to distinguish itself is when you visit Canton, and Youngstown, and Warren, and Mansfield... then we start to look major league again.
On the other hand I think Akron has been eating Cleveland's lunch for the past decade and so maybe we need to compare ourselves to our little sister to see where we can improve. The three big diffences between Akron and Cleveland are as follows.
One: Due to Akrons smaller size and later development there is a substantial amount of modern middle class housing within the city limits... aka taxpayers. Whereas about 80% of homes in Cleveland were built before WWI...aka functionally obsolete shanties, and section 8 rental units. What this translates to is healthier, less dysfunctional neighborhoods and a more educated electorate.
Two: Centralized decision making vs. entrenched political divisions. Don Plusqellic and a Single County Executive get a lot more done than a weak mayor and the three stooges plus all the councilmembers, Church Leaders, Business Leaders, Developers, Civil rights groups, city worker unions.... not that akron doesn't deal with those same issues, but the constituencies are smaller and more manageable and it doesn't get on the 6 oclock news because its Akron and nobody cares.
Three: A private sector industrial base. Akron may not have the rubber industry anymore but it has all of the successor industries due to the tacit knowledgebase and abundance of skilled workers. All of clevelands big employers are institutional... aka they pay no taxes, take all of the most productive land off of the market, and do all of their purchasing from other government entitites.
Two: Centralized decision making vs. entrenched political divisions. Don Plusqellic and a Single County Executive get a lot more done than a weak mayor and the three stooges plus all the councilmembers, Church Leaders, Business Leaders, Developers, Civil rights groups, city worker unions.... not that akron doesn't deal with those same issues, but the constituencies are smaller and more manageable and it doesn't get on the 6 oclock news because its Akron and nobody cares.
Actually a measure was just past to change the cuyahoga county government from a three county member government to an 11 member county government with a single county executive. It will take place in 2011 i believe. so that part has changed damatically.
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