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"He has been looking for skilled welders and is offering good pay and benefits but he claims that there are few to be found " I have heard this too, and then later heard what they were offering for pay. They pay is only a little more than non-skilled workers. Not saying this is true in your particular case though...
That is what I thought when I first read the post.
Personally a good tradesman is worth his weight in gold, esp, in the home improvement / repair area. There are lots of not so good or downright crooked ones. The good repairmen around here are always busy, even during the recession.
"How is it determined that a student is not "cut out for college"?" they try it and don't like it or don't do well in their classes?
Well, I have no problem with that. But there are lots of people on this forum who want to shunt kids into vocational schooling when they are still in high school. Some even suggest these kids shouldn't even bother graduating HS.
The whole idea that everyone is cut out for college is nuts. There nothing wrong with being a skilled tradesman. Not everyone's skills are book based ie college. Some like hands on learning they are not cut out for college. Lots of kids do not like college. It is dumb to make this push for everyone to go to college.
The whole idea that everyone is cut out for college is nuts. There nothing wrong with being a skilled tradesman. Not everyone's skills are book based ie college. Some like hands on learning they are not cut out for college. Lots of kids do not like college. It is dumb to make this push for everyone to go to college.
It is not dumb to encourage students to reach their full potential, whatever that may be.
It is not dumb to encourage students to reach their full potential, whatever that may be.
True...BUT...
It is a simple fact that a majority of jobs in this country do not truly require a bachelor's degree. Does a cashier, cook, tradesman, garbage collector or even low level office worker need a university degree? No. Do I want my doctors, lawyers and engineers to have degrees? Of course. But, my plumber or the girl in a cubicle who just enters data into Excel and answers phones all day? It just isn't necessary.
"Everybody going to college" is an inefficient societal paradigm that has brought more harm than good to the career/work world. The cost of these degrees have gone up while their value has gone down. Kids spend four years learning a bunch of stuff that has no applicability to their future profession. Most of them would have been better off just going right to work and climbing their way up in a company. I'm also not too happy with these companies who demand an applicant have a B.A. for simple jobs. It is just ludicrous.
Thanks I wonderwhy2124 for posting many reasons why I feel college is over sold. College cost way to much today. And you can not get rid of the debt. Jobs like HR IT engineering even lawyers and legal work sent to India. The cost is way out of line for the value of most degrees. And as we ship more R&D engineering and IT work to India. The value of those degrees will also fall. Most white collar will be sent overseas. It cost about 75% less to do a job in India so a 60k engineering job done in the US. The same job can be done in India for 15k. We telling kids to get educated for what? The majority of jobs do not require a BA. They only ask for one because they can. The job market is so flooded with college educated workers some are working for little pay.
It is a simple fact that a majority of jobs in this country do not truly require a bachelor's degree. Does a cashier, cook, tradesman, garbage collector or even low level office worker need a university degree? No. Do I want my doctors, lawyers and engineers to have degrees? Of course. But, my plumber or the girl in a cubicle who just enters data into Excel and answers phones all day? It just isn't necessary.
"Everybody going to college" is an inefficient societal paradigm that has brought more harm than good to the career/work world. The cost of these degrees have gone up while their value has gone down. Kids spend four years learning a bunch of stuff that has no applicability to their future profession. Most of them would have been better off just going right to work and climbing their way up in a company. I'm also not too happy with these companies who demand an applicant have a B.A. for simple jobs. It is just ludicrous.
And there you have it. This is also one reason why young people drown in debt. Top it off with not being able to find a job that pays more than minimum wage and voila - student loan default or deferment until heaven only knows when. That's simply reality.
Thanks I wonderwhy2124 for posting many reasons why I feel college is over sold. College cost way to much today. And you can not get rid of the debt. Jobs like HR IT engineering even lawyers and legal work sent to India. The cost is way out of line for the value of most degrees. And as we ship more R&D engineering and IT work to India. The value of those degrees will also fall. Most white collar will be sent overseas. It cost about 75% less to do a job in India so a 60k engineering job done in the US. The same job can be done in India for 15k. We telling kids to get educated for what? The majority of jobs do not require a BA. They only ask for one because they can. The job market is so flooded with college educated workers some are working for little pay.
Good points. We can say our children "aren't prepared" until the cows come home, but let's face it: Money talks.
It is amazing to me that so many people participating in the Education Forum believe that the only value of "Education" is to make people worth more money in their specific career niche within the economic marketplace of human resources, to be bought and sold by corporate empires.
Why don't we just completely remove philosophy and history and literature and biology from the curriculum, since none of those would increase the wage-worthiness of a plumber or aerospace engineer or telemarketer or surgeon, and the only purpose of education is to give pre-job training to mindless working stiffs.
It is a simple fact that a majority of jobs in this country do not truly require a bachelor's degree. Does a cashier, cook, tradesman, garbage collector or even low level office worker need a university degree? No. Do I want my doctors, lawyers and engineers to have degrees? Of course. But, my plumber or the girl in a cubicle who just enters data into Excel and answers phones all day? It just isn't necessary.
"Everybody going to college" is an inefficient societal paradigm that has brought more harm than good to the career/work world. The cost of these degrees have gone up while their value has gone down. Kids spend four years learning a bunch of stuff that has no applicability to their future profession. Most of them would have been better off just going right to work and climbing their way up in a company. I'm also not too happy with these companies who demand an applicant have a B.A. for simple jobs. It is just ludicrous.
Very good points; you do have to wonder about the expense of going to college vs. the type of employment the graduates get; now, more than ever, there should be some connection between the money that is spent and the degree that is sought; no one should drown in debt just to become "culturally" aware..
It is amazing to me that so many people participating in the Education Forum believe that the only value of "Education" is to make people worth more money in their specific career niche within the economic marketplace of human resources, to be bought and sold by corporate empires.
Why don't we just completely remove philosophy and history and literature and biology from the curriculum, since none of those would increase the wage-worthiness of a plumber or aerospace engineer or telemarketer or surgeon, and the only purpose of education is to give pre-job training to mindless working stiffs.
And it amazes me that people refuse to accept the fact that 95% of people go to university or post-secondary institutions as a means to gain a higher level of employment. Most people don't go to school and take on massive amounts of debt all to "become a more well-rounded person". They do it to be able to get a decent job and gain entrance to the middle-class. College is a financial investment. Many (if not all) people view it as a vehicle to lead to making more money in the future. End of story.
I am not "dissing" the liberal arts. But, these topics can be learned for free in a library or on the internet. And, do they actually add to one's skillset? A B.A. from a prestigious university has the potential to lead somewhere because of reputation and alumni connections. But, a B.A. from Everyday State? Forget it...it's a total waste of time. There is no reason for a poor person to get tens of thousands of dollars in debt to earn a piece of paper which will not help their bottom line.
Scenario: Person from a strapped working-class family borrows a bunch of money to go to a mediocre college. They get an English Literature degree. Our intrepid young person reads some Shakespeare and James Joyce. He or she has written essays until blue in the face and now has $50,000 in debt. The things that were learned have no applicability to any vocation which will earn one money. Our dear student has to pay $400 a month for the next 15 years. Maybe if he or she is lucky they can fenagle a low level corporate drone office job that a high school graduate could do. How is this whole process beneficial to the individual or to society? It is extremely wasteful of time, energy and resources all while having no discernible benefit.
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