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Employers/HR departments are smart. They can easily tell who is well-educated and who is not. The problem is students are deceiving themselves (or are deceived by zealous recruiting departments). They think the can plop down money at a third-rate school or a for-profit degree mill and expect to receive a meaningful degree and a ticket to a high paying job. It doesn't work that way. All degrees are not equal.
Ivorytickler good posts as always. You always make good points. I do not think people get it. You can pump out 2 million college grads a year. It means nothing it does not make any more jobs. US business is hiring overseas engineers in India for 15k. China even less back office workers from over the world. Almost any white collar job can be done overseas for about 75% less. It is really that simple. Do you really business cares about keeping jobs here. Now you have kids with degree working for 10 bucks an hour. An he had to beat 100 a kids to get that. It is a race to the bottom as far as wages go. And we are not done yet.
That's not how IQ works. IQ is an innate ability of intelligence. The 140 IQ would have a 140 IQ regardless of whether someone else has a college degree or curriculum is dumbed down. Whether they are more EDUCATED is a different question...
True. Although I think the issue is competency.
With the current dumbing down, people think they are smarter than they are.
30 years ago, you would have had 1 truely intelligent college degree holder, and 4 highschool grads. But now, they are trying to fit all 5 people into a square hole. Their cirriculum, preparation, isn't what it was 30 years ago. So instead of a 130 IQ (or 130 job preparation level), you get 108, or 104.
Student loans are granted at 4.5%, inflation is running about 3%, take out expenses to manage the student loans and factor in the default rate and the program is making enough to sustain itself at best. When you get into the private loan department the default rate on those loans is pretty high too that I would say that it is NOT very profitable at all.
Except that student loans don't go away. They will be trying to collect on defaulted student loans for the student's entire life. That makes it a low risk (for the lender) loan with some pretty sturdy collateral... namely the warm body who signed the dotted line and can be collected on as long as the body remains warm. Add mountains of late fees and wow, you've got a great cash cow!
It's also plausible that the price of a college education will weed out those who are only semi-interested, or those who are more interested in a faster return on their investment ( vocational training, etc). There's no point in spending 100K on an unmotivated, disinterested student.
As far as the differences between schools, most employers are somewhat aware of these. An Ivy League graduate should be able to distinguish himself from a state college grad, and thus even more so from a community college student ( although they will not be applying for the same positions).
Community college have served a purpose in providing a chance at post-secondary schooling for those who previously lacked motivation, or perhaps money. But let's not kid ourselves--in many cases, community college is just remedial high school work; many of these students would not be enrolled in ANY type of college without the relaxed admissions standards of these schools.
President Obama recently emphasized the importance of a college-educated workforce. He stopped short of, yet alluded to, the popular goal of many educational leaders of all children going to college.
What would the unintended consequences be if this goal were achieved? It is hard to imagine that anyone would want to work as a cashier at Walmart, a truck driver, a construction worker, or work any other job that does not currently require an advanced degree.
It's time to stop the rhetoric and PC statements and focus on the goal of providing opportunity. This involves a structure that allows the learner to pursue the education and training necessary that matches their ability, aptitude, motivation and interest with the needs of society.
For many this may have little or nothing to do with college.
I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. It's never going to happen.
That's not how IQ works. IQ is an innate ability of intelligence. The 140 IQ would have a 140 IQ regardless of whether someone else has a college degree or curriculum is dumbed down. Whether they are more EDUCATED is a different question...
Yes, you may be right, but I agree with John23's point.
There are too many colleges out there. Let's face it, there are too many people with low IQs, who attend and graduate from college. Most colleges are watered down.
How many low IQ engineering graduates displace high IQ engineering college graduates in the U.S. workplace?
Having been an engineer earlier in my life, I can tell you this is much higher than you think.
The unintended consequences are that cab drivers and waitresses and lawn care workers and motel housekeepers (who will all have college degrees) will expect to be paid $60K a year with full benefits, in order to pay back their student loan.
President Obama recently emphasized the importance of a college-educated workforce. He stopped short of, yet alluded to, the popular goal of many educational leaders of all children going to college.
What would the unintended consequences be if this goal were achieved?
Just read some of these threads and go into the parenting forum and read.
There are tons of college grads living at home with mom and dad because they think, because of that almighty degree, they deserve a better job than McDonald's or Walmart.
There is going to be more and more grads living at home and not working at all because the degree is in a useless field where there is no demand.
There are going to be more and more older parents supporting their college educated adult children into retirement while struggling in the economy themselves.
There is no need for so many college graduates. At this point in time we are glutted with grads but there are no jobs.
That's part of the problem with entering college straight out of high school. Young adults haven't been in the real world at all and have no idea of where the demand is, so they choose a field that they like but has no real world use.
I do not understand why high school grads don't spend a couple years in those menial jobs that they would get right out of college anyway, save their money and learn how to live within a budget and on their own, THEN go to college with a useful degree in mind, or go to trade school and make more money than if they went to college, without owing the rest of their lives.
Parents are to blame for this. If Junior doesn't go straight to college after high school, parents are afraid they will look like a failure to their peers who send their kids. Parents like to brag they have so many kids in college. Kids aren't encouraged to spend a couple years out in the world, and they aren't encouraged to learn a trade. Parents would rather take the adult children back in and support them AFTER COLLEGE than to turn them out to learn how to support themselves first.
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