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Is this a wise plan, as long as all the courses are accepted by her transferring university? What are its drawbacks?
Yes. Drawbacks are practically nil. Some extremely competitive graduate programs may see a record at a CC as a negative but to be honest, most won't. Plenty of people do their first two years at a CC and go on to successfully complete graduate degrees including JDs and MD/DOs. I know a doctor who went that route and she didn't have any trouble getting into medical school at all, according to her. She went to UT-Southwestern which is a very competitive school.
It is a sound plan financially. But there are other aspects to consider when talking about your undergraduate education. Her major is a big factor; some curriculums are designed almost as a 4 year package. She will most definitely reap the benefits of not being debt ridden, but she will have some minor setbacks that can easily be overcome when it comes to curriculum. She did a good thing considering the state of the economy and the outrageous cost of education. Schools are teaching the same courses...why can "School A" charge 3 times what "School B" charges when it comes to many of the courses. There are many quality alternatives to curriculums that are just as rigorous and the quality is just as good for much less in cost.
I attended all four years of my undergraduate education at a small, private Catholic college that nonetheless offered master's and doctorates. I commuted from home, developed something of a small social life in-school, and have roughly $25,000 of student loan debt to show for it.
My sister tried to do the same thing, though not living at home but with her friend's family. Despite her EFC of 0, she was faced with the prospect of hefty bills and already had a nice car that she was making payments on, so she decided to go the other route - getting her associate's degree at a community college and then matriculating into the university where she wanted to go in the first place (but was rejected). Her classes sound as academically rigorous as mine were and she is even going on a two-week program in Moscow this winter (I didn't know community colleges offered such things). She will likely graduate community college without debt but with good grades, and proceed on to the university of her choice, where she will complete her other two years.
Is this a wise plan, as long as all the courses are accepted by her transferring university? What are its drawbacks?
Financially, it will make sense. But I agree that it is also dependent on the choice of major. Simply knocking out two years of college at a CC does not mean much if she will have to take 100 and 200 level intro/survey courses in order to proceed onto the 300 and 400 level courses. In essence, she could still spend four years at a university. This might not be too bad, financially, if she went to a state school where she was able to pay by the credit/hour. However, many private universities have tuitions set at two price ranges: full time and part time. That is, you pay the same price whether you are taking 12 credits or taking 18 credits. And, for part time, is generally paid for per credit/hour for credits totaling 11 or under. Paying by the credit/hour at a private u. can be expensive. I went to two (transferred) and the price of a single credit at both was just over $600 + all of the same fees and charges that full time students pay.
Community colleges offer all sorts of stuff. The one near my residence is big with foreign students as they have an excellent ESL program. When I lived in Maine, the biggest CC in that state had dorms. When I lived in California, many CCs had football teams, baseball teams, olympic-sized pools, and real stadiums.
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Originally Posted by jerseygal4u
All depends on the major.
I did 2 years for an associates in nursing.
However,it actually took 3 years because you have to take 1 year of pre-reqs, then you enter the 2 year nursing program. That's 3 years,and you only get an associates.
I could have just enrolled in a 4 year Bsn program and saved myself a year, because now if I go back for the Bsn that's an additional 2 years.
She will be transferring to a well-known business program at a public university. She did not get into the program she wanted to, probably due to a middling ACT score.
She will be transferring to a well-known business program at a public university. She did not get into the program she wanted to, probably due to a middling ACT score.
How long has she been at the community college? She can still apply to her dream program as a transfer student.
I have to explain again. She was rejected for the well-known business program at a flagship public university. She was admitted late into a private college, but even with her EFC of 0, did not get enough in grants, including subsidized student loans, to cover costs. She does work (amazing how she finds jobs), but not many hours and prefers to spend her earnings on shopping and food. So she enrolled at a community college with the hope of transferring to the well-known public university business program upon completion of her associate's degree.
Community colleges are not as rigorous. In my engineering program, there were several students who came from Community College and they all commented on how the curriculum was harder at 4 year.
That said, there are only 2 reasons I can think of to not do that:
1) If you plan on applying to medical school, they will want to see that you earned good grades in the prereqs (Calc, Chemsitry, Bio, Physics) from a competitive school. Taking those classes at CC is a definite negative.
2) You lose out on the socializing of the first two years, big part of the college experience.
I agree with all of this. "Only two" reasons are pretty big ones, in my book.
My home state of NY has articulation agreements with all of the community colleges in the state. In order to be accepted to most SUNY 4 year colleges, one needs an Associate Degree and a 2.5 average!
It's not working out well. A 2.5 at a CC will tans;late into a 2 - or less at a rigorous college.
Of those accepted to those 4 year colleges from CCs only 25% graduate! On Long Island in Engineering, people constantly attempt to parlay an AAS from Suffolk into a BS @ Stony Brook University's college of Engineering. That's a highly competitive teir one college and the Engineering College is tough an nails.
Go to a CC if you want an associate degree, need a class, or can not do any better.
I'm of the belief that their is a four year college for everyone. But it requiers a lot of reserach and not just settling for the college in your home town. Had I done that, I'd have gone to low rated rich kid CW Post college, because it's pretty and only two miles from the house I grew up in.
That brings me to going away to school. You get ONE chance to enter college with your cohort group and to graduate with that same group.
One.
If you "save money" by going to 2 years at a CC you come in as a transfer student. You lose out on Freshman year. You will be thought of as a transfer student and you might be looked down upon by your peers.
I do not get the "2 - 2" plan. I think it's mostly out of fear and a default plan.
My son is away at school and just met his two best friends. In his words "the best friends I have ever made in my life."
Since we live in an area now where going away to college is rather rare, it took a lot of pushing and encouragement to get with the program.
His friends who decided to stay home? Two contacted me on facebook to find out if they could get into college in the middle of the year and to tell me that they were both "bored out of their minds."
I have to explain again. She was rejected for the well-known business program at a flagship public university. She was admitted late into a private college, but even with her EFC of 0, did not get enough in grants, including subsidized student loans, to cover costs. She does work (amazing how she finds jobs), but not many hours and prefers to spend her earnings on shopping and food. So she enrolled at a community college with the hope of transferring to the well-known public university business program upon completion of her associate's degree.
I agree with this. My sister is depending on the 0 EFC thing and I know many people who were told that they would be not contributing one dime - but came out a few grand to more short.
For a low income family that can be devastating.
I have another financial plan that is almost fool proof. - If a good to excellent student applies to a college one or two levels lower than they are capable of gaining entrance, the WILL GET $$$$.
Colleges LOVE to give money to better students than they are used to accepting.
And I am not saying that your child (or you) needs to apply to a ignominious less competitive college and obtain a compromised education.
The colleges fro B students list in US News and World Report gives colleges that are well respected and most people would be proud to attend. USN and WR calls them colleges for B students but I can safely say that they are mostly educating students with averages of at least 3.5 and board score in the 600s.
No Harvard is not on that list. Harvard Schmarvard. But many well respected colleges are.
I attended a cc before transferring (to study engineering) to a 4 year university and I highly recommend it. The difference between a cc and a four year university is that the university uses the first two years of courses as weeding courses and the cc does not. My math and science were MUCH stronger than my peers who did not attend cc when I transferred as a result.
For example, their calculus courses were 3 credits and met for three hours per week. Mine were 5 and met for 5 hours a week. I got two more hours of instruction per week. They drove me nuts. They could do the math if they were first shown how but they did not recognize when it applied and when it didn't. They didn't understand calculus. I did. I credit that to 67% more instructional hours. Granted, my calculus courses transferred as only 3 credits but I was head and shoulders above my peers in ability.
As to being harder at a 4 year, I'll agree. It's harder because you get less direct instruction but that means they can't go as deep either. I made up for that, once my classes were only meeting 3 hours a week, by spending time debating things with the professors. I was used to more in depth discussion of the material.
IMO, cc's weed you in in the first 2 years while 4 years try to weed you out. Plus it's a whole lot cheaper to attend a cc for two years and then transfer. In my case, it was free. I did so well at the cc I earned a transfer scholarship. Something I didn't even know existed. I ended up graduating #1 in my major at univserity. I'm pretty sure I would have been weeded out had I gone there first. I credit the cc with my success.
IMO, a cc is a great place to build a strong foundation because they are not trying to weed you out. Their attitude is that they only have you for two years and they're going to teach you what they can in that time, whereas, the attitude at a university is often that the first two years are when they separate the wheat from the chaff. I think many people who didn't cut it the first two years at university would have done just fine if they'd gone to a cc first and then transferred.
Of course, I attended a highly rated cc. I'm sure, just like universities, they are not all created equal.
I would not be at all upset if both of my girls decided to go to the same cc. FTR, my brother attended a different cc with a lower rating and was also well prepared for transfer to university. I think they're a great place to start and a smart move because they cost so much less.
And to those who claim that grad schools want to see lower level classes taken at a competitive university ...horse pucky! If the class is not considered rigorous enough, it won't transfer. If it transfers, it meets the university's requirements. It makes no difference if you took calculus at cc and transferred the credit or if you took it at university except no one tried to use it to flunk you out in cc. Grad schools will look at how you performed when you transferred moreso than that you transferred because they know that universities won't give credit for courses that do not meet their requirements.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 09-25-2012 at 03:35 AM..
She will be transferring to a well-known business program at a public university. She did not get into the program she wanted to, probably due to a middling ACT score.
Hello fellow Minnesotan. I'm going to assume your sister wants to go to the UofMN CSOM (Carlson School of Management) and coming from ARCC or North Hennepin CC.
The CSOM is competitive. While it is a great business school, their biggest strength is their business relationships. Companies come like Medtronics, Target, BB, and many others draw heavily from this school. They accomplish their goal of attracting companies that want to recruit at CSOM because of their standards. The average ACT score last year was about 30 and a high percentage of the students admitted were in the top 10% of their high school class.
The issue at hand is that the CSOM doesn't take a lot of transferring students. My DS was being recruited throughout high school through a program called Gopher Business. So we had a direct line into the head of the undergraduate admissions and we spoke a dozen times. My DS was waffling between CSOM and the CBS (16 ranked biology department at the UofMN). He asked what would happen of he wanted to transfer back into the CSOM if Honors CBS wasn't right for him. She candidly stated that it is rare for openings but they like taking care of their own (meaning UofMN students are in better shape during transferring situations).
In the end he decided to go to a different college. But it was clear that a transfer was going to be tough for a recruited Gopher Business student even if he went to the UofMN. Statistically speaking, a community college transfer isn't going to happen to the CSOM. No matter what the community college adviser says, double check their work. Simply call the admissions department and ask for a histogram of where (and how many) students were transferred into their college. If you need a contact person and speak to the head decision maker, DM me.
A more likely path of getting into the CSOM is to do well somewhere else and apply for an MBA at the CSOM. The undergraduate doors are pretty much closed after her senior year of HS. This competitive situation is NOT unique to the UofMN. Therefore another trade-off to going to a Community College is the situation that I just explained. There are exceptions to the rules (everyone knows of the that one exception) but it is a much more difficult and unlikely to get into tough programs though the community college. Just as you are labeled "smart" by going to Harvard, SOME people label you as "average" by attending a CC even when it is financially motivated and the student is brilliant. Community College while going to high school is the exception. Each year, the bar is rising so this wasn't the case in 1984. Don't shoot the messenger.
Good Luck!
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 09-25-2012 at 05:58 AM..
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This competitive situation is NOT unique to the UofMN. Therefore another trade-off to going to a Community College is the situation that I just explained. There are exceptions to the rules (everyone knows of the that one exception) but it is a much more difficult and unlikely to get into tough programs though the community college. Just as you are labeled "smart" by going to Harvard, SOME people label you as "average" by attending a CC even when it is financially motivated and the student is brilliant. Community College while going to high school is the exception. Each year, the bar is rising so this wasn't the case in 1984. Don't shoot the messenger. 
