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No, you are behind the times, doesn't matter if you teach or not....that's irrelevant. You are putting too much of an emphasis on the brand name of the degree and not enough of an emphasis on the other aspects of the "package" such as the experience, network, and references.
Your way of thought causes students to attend a $100k program to compete for jobs that other people who only paid $40k for their degrees are competing (and winning) with.
YOU believe that the people in the competitive pool will have a leg up based on their brand name degree, and that's wrong in 2014. What will give you a leg up is your EXPERIENCE, references as well as your networking capabilities.
And what job are you applying for with 100 plus candidates? Sounds like you are hot shotting your resume out instead of doing tailored, specific and niche job applications.
And which do you think will give you better references and networking capabilities? Top schools have top professors (Harvard, Yale, Colombia, ivy league professors), top internship opportunities, better networking alumni, and better locations to jobs.
That 100K thing has been done to death dude.... even at top ranked schools, let alone top ranked brick and mortar online schools, most masters degrees cost no more than 75K which is the very, very high end. You can get masters for as low as 25-45K at many top state schools.
I'm sure that there is very little difference between the top programs out there in ivy leagues vs. state schools vs. private schools in terms of academics. The real differences come from what I stated above, which is networking bases, internship opportunities, getting you experience, proximity to jobs, and reputation. Yes, experience matters, but the job is going to train you the way they want you any ways. You'd be blind not to think that a matter wouldn't want someone with an ivy league degree on their team because it only boosts their credentials and reputation. They can do all the training later.
And which do you think will give you better references and networking capabilities? Top schools have top professors (Harvard, Yale, Colombia, ivy league professors), top internship opportunities, better networking alumni, and better locations to jobs.
Hold on now. For what type of positions are you referring to? If you are talking Investment Banking than YES, if you are talking top management positions in large financial corporations than YES, if you are talking EVERYTHING ELSE......I don't need the Ivys if I'm efficient.
I have LinkedIn, the Chamber of Commerce, various Business Associations and Niche Job Boards, to efficiently construct a network of hiring managers and recruiters within the Finance/Accounting/General Banking area that I'm seeking to work (which is my field).
In terms of references, the BEST references are prior employers and clientele that can vouch for my competency, which I will HAVE as I should be smart enough to know that I must have experience to qualify for the good positions, apart of that experience is going to be working with and for these prior employers, partners and clientele.
In relation to the "Alumni Network" of the Ivys, they are still there in some capacity, but you should be an efficient business professional today and be ABLE to construct your own business network and not just rely on the Network that comes with your Alumni Association.
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USMCPOG
That 100K thing has been done to death dude.... even at top ranked schools, let alone top ranked brick and mortar online schools, most masters degrees cost no more than 75K which is the very, very high end. You can get masters for as low as 25-45K at many top state schools.
I agree, I said in a prior post that you should pay no more than $40,000 for your MBA. But the colleges you listed are in the $100k - $150k range.
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USMCPOG
I'm sure that there is very little difference between the top programs out there in ivy leagues vs. state schools vs. private schools in terms of academics. The real differences come from what I stated above, which is networking bases, internship opportunities, getting you experience, proximity to jobs, and reputation. Yes, experience matters, but the job is going to train you the way they want you any ways. You'd be blind not to think that a matter wouldn't want someone with an ivy league degree on their team because it only boosts their credentials and reputation. They can do all the training later.
Like Professor, your line of thinking is outdated. The ONLY positions where this is still relevant is in the Investment Banking field for the most part as well as other top Wallstreet positions as those positions are filled based mainly on the politics and also the internships which are only offered to the Top Ranked Business Schools.
For all the other positions that don't function like this, YOU DO NOT NEED to go to a Top Ranked School. What you need is a school that is respected and affordable, regionally accredited and credible.....then you need to make sure you have very good experience, prior work performance, references as well as establishing your own business network using the sources I posted above. You won't have an issue getting into the position you want, as well as being aware of the other positions that are available that might offer more opportunities. PLUS every major hiring person within your field will know who you are.....that's your damn network right there guys lol.
You guys are putting way too much value on the brand name college....Employers today realize that it's all about the complete package of the candidate (experience, education, network) rather than just the brand name on a piece of paper.
But you are free to do what you please, go ahead and spend $100,000 MORE for the same degree that cost me only $25,000 after grants/tax incentives. And watch don't we end up making the same amount of money taking into account cost of living standards, inflation, etc. UNLESS as I mentioned, you plan on going into Investment Banking.
Hold on now. For what type of positions are you referring to? If you are talking Investment Banking than YES, if you are talking top management positions in large financial corporations than YES, if you are talking EVERYTHING ELSE......I don't need the Ivys if I'm efficient.
I have LinkedIn, the Chamber of Commerce, various Business Associations and Niche Job Boards, to efficiently construct a network of hiring managers and recruiters within the Finance/Accounting/General Banking area that I'm seeking to work (which is my field).
In terms of references, the BEST references are prior employers and clientele that can vouch for my competency, which I will HAVE as I should be smart enough to know that I must have experience to qualify for the good positions, apart of that experience is going to be working with and for these prior employers, partners and clientele.
In relation to the "Alumni Network" of the Ivys, they are still there in some capacity, but you should be an efficient business professional today and be ABLE to construct your own business network and not just rely on the Network that comes with your Alumni Association.
I'm referring to any type of position. If you are in a major metropolitan area, it isn't enough to just have an ordinary degree and some experience. You have to standout any way you can because of the level of competition. Maybe in a small town or city that works, but try a major city and see who you are competing against for a job.
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I agree, I said in a prior post that you should pay no more than $40,000 for your MBA. But the colleges you listed are in the $100k - $150k range.
What colleges did I list that were that much? University of Florida, Penn State, U of Georgia, University of Miami, etc. can all get you an MBA for less than 50K. The Ivys are more expensive, but they also finance more of the degree and generally give merit scholarships or other types of aid. A misconception of Ivy league schools is that the attendee is paying out the full amount themselves, when its usually the above.
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Like Professor, your line of thinking is outdated. The ONLY positions where this is still relevant is in the Investment Banking field for the most part as well as other top Wallstreet positions as those positions are filled based mainly on the politics and also the internships which are only offered to the Top Ranked Business Schools.
Wait, are you unemployed and looking for work or employed? Not to do this, but if you have all the answers, you shouldn't have an issue with finding a job right now.
And as long as people are willing to pay top dollar for a college, this line of thinking will never be outdated. Its no different from going to the store and buying a TV. You can probably get a no name brand TV cheaper than a big name brand like LG or Samsung, but as shallow as it sounds, people hold the names LG and Samsung to a higher standard in terms of quality and everything.
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For all the other positions that don't function like this, YOU DO NOT NEED to go to a Top Ranked School. What you need is a school that is respected and affordable, regionally accredited and credible.....then you need to make sure you have very good experience, prior work performance, references as well as establishing your own business network using the sources I posted above. You won't have an issue getting into the position you want, as well as being aware of the other positions that are available that might offer more opportunities. PLUS every major hiring person within your field will know who you are.....that's your damn network right there guys lol.
You guys are putting way too much value on the brand name college....Employers today realize that it's all about the complete package of the candidate (experience, education, network) rather than just the brand name on a piece of paper.
But you are free to do what you please, go ahead and spend $100,000 MORE for the same degree that cost me only $25,000 after grants/tax incentives. And watch don't we end up making the same amount of money taking into account cost of living standards, inflation, etc. UNLESS as I mentioned, you plan on going into Investment Banking.
Problem is, most people can't get to the level of experience required to surpass the degree attached to their name without first getting a job. And to get a job or even an internship, you need to have some good credentials, and for someone without experience or even mid level experience, that is still difficult.
I'll be going back for another masters degree myself and for 30K, I'm getting it from a top ranked school in my area that holds weight in my state and out of my state. Still don't know where the "100,000 meme stuff" is coming from...
But if you want to pay 5K less for a degree from a relatively unknown named school, go ahead.
I'm referring to any type of position. If you are in a major metropolitan area, it isn't enough to just have an ordinary degree and some experience. You have to standout any way you can because of the level of competition. Maybe in a small town or city that works, but try a major city and see who you are competing against for a job.
Yes, and you STAND OUT through having the total package that I explained of relevant experience, references, relevant degrees/certifications, and excellent networking. You do not need a brand name degree. Your line of thinking is wrong and does not reflect the current marketplace forces.
The only time you could make a case where a brand name degree gets you a look over someone without a brand name degree was if BOTH of you lacked experience. Once you are pass Entry Level and you both are working within your industry, the brand name degree is secondary to the total package.
But again, you can do what you want, if you want to spend the extra money then do whatever you feel. But it's not required again unless I said you are looking to work in I-Banking and you will NOT be working in I-Banking unless you have been recruited already IN UNDERGRAD.
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USMCPOG
What colleges did I list that were that much? University of Florida, Penn State, U of Georgia, University of Miami, etc. can all get you an MBA for less than 50K. The Ivys are more expensive, but they also finance more of the degree and generally give merit scholarships or other types of aid. A misconception of Ivy league schools is that the attendee is paying out the full amount themselves, when its usually the above.
Well, to answer your question, you listed the Top Ranked B-Schools. And listen, while we are discussing the Top Schools, you do realize that everybody can't just walk into those schools right? And it's not really about talent nor being smart, it's about already being networked in some fashion to even get into those Top Ranked B-Schools due to the very low amount of available slots. Once the student gets in, either an Employer or a Trust Fund is paying for most of the tuition. But there are other schools out there that are not Top Ranked that still charge an arm and a leg.
And please don't talk about misconceptions, you are the same guy that just two weeks ago created a thread wondering if you should obtain a second bachelor's degree in Finance after having already acquired a Master's in Public Administration. If you had everything figured out sir, you would have went after an MBA the first time and not acquired an MPA as the MBA allows you to work in private, public, non-profit....all sectors.
Wait, are you unemployed and looking for work or employed? Not to do this, but if you have all the answers, you shouldn't have an issue with finding a job right now.
And as long as people are willing to pay top dollar for a college, this line of thinking will never be outdated. Its no different from going to the store and buying a TV. You can probably get a no name brand TV cheaper than a big name brand like LG or Samsung, but as shallow as it sounds, people hold the names LG and Samsung to a higher standard in terms of quality and everything.
No, I'm not unemployed. And in relation to people paying top dollar for a college and THAT'S why your line of thinking will never be outdated, well, that makes no sense. For one, what's outdated is the fact that a brand name college gets you more interviews than a non brand name one, there's no DATA you can pull up to support that notion. All data, analysis, research, etc. shows that having the total package as I explained is what provides the opportunities. When you INTERVIEW Employers they talk about candidates needing to have the total package.
When people like ME try to wake people like you up and you won't listen, that's why college tuition continues to go through the roof because when alternative formats are offered to reduce the cost (community colleges, competency degrees, going to college while still in high school, staying local, etc. etc) people like YOU refuse to implement them and continue to run on an old and tired model of "brand name degree = work" when it's not the case.
Colleges are funded through a combination of donations, tuition dollars and state monies. MOST of the expenses of the College is for Administration and HR. The reason the cost is so high is because states have had to cut back on the aid, donations can only be SO MUCH, and thus they have to raise the tuition dollars year after year after year. Because PEOPLE LIKE YOU keep relying on an old system instead of implementing other alternatives throughout the degree acquisition procedure.
But again....do whatever you want lol.
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USMCPOG
Problem is, most people can't get to the level of experience required to surpass the degree attached to their name without first getting a job. And to get a job or even an internship, you need to have some good credentials, and for someone without experience or even mid level experience, that is still difficult.
I have no clue what in the world you are talking about. An internship is provided for those still in Undergrad for the most part across the board, usually you want to start looking for them in Junior year or right before it. You work the internship for the final two years in college and do very well so they make an offer to you before graduation. You work for the company for the next 4 years and then they offer you an opportunity to go grab an MBA at Wharton, fully paid for, in exchange for 5-10 years of commitment to their company afterwards.
You clearly don't know what you are talking about. I have an MBA, I work with other MBAs, I also have a bachelor's degree FROM a Top Ranked school system as well. I have three bachelor's degrees in total. I got my MBA and three bachelor's degrees paid for IN FULL from grants, scholarships and tax incentives. I think I know "a little bit of something" in relation to the College system, especially the B-School System.
But again, do whatever you want lol. I have no dog in this fight.
You clearly don't know what you are talking about. I have an MBA, I work with other MBAs, I also have a bachelor's degree FROM a Top Ranked school system as well. I have three bachelor's degrees in total. I got my MBA and three bachelor's degrees paid for IN FULL from grants, scholarships and tax incentives. I think I know "a little bit of something" in relation to the College system, especially the B-School System.
But again, do whatever you want lol. I have no dog in this fight.
That being said, WGU is still not much.
MEDIOCRITY.
You may not have a dog in this fight but it surely is barking. Loudly.
You may not have a dog in this fight but it surely is barking. Loudly.
Lol, okay. Care to elaborate? What do you mean by WGU is mediocre? You can't just throw out a statement like that with no elaboration my friend
- WGU is regionally accredited, created by 19 State Governors with 5 mirrored WGU State School/Institutions created by TX, IN, WA, MO and TN. In those five states, WGU TX, WGU IN, WGU WA, WGU MO and WGU TN are additional State Schools for those States in particular, allowing the students in those states to take advantage of various State based aid programs for the State based institution. Each Governor of those additional States rolled out the individual WGU State School with open arms and full press, adding to its list of State Institutions.
- WGU leads the nation in Teacher education and leads the nation in bringing competency based degrees to the forefront which drastically reduces the cost of degree acquisition while providing a higher confirmation that the student actually comprehends the material. You have other State Schools, like University of Wisconsin, that are copying the WGU competency program. The White House has praised and recommended WGU in terms of innovation in higher education. WGU has a flat tuition rate, allows you to accelerate to completion, and includes textbooks/resources in the PRICE of the tuition.
- WGU isn't for everybody, it's for those of us who just need a "check off the box" in terms of degree acquisition. Mainly, it's for those working adult professionals who didn't complete their full college degree program yet due to their hectic work schedules. By acquiring the degree, the individual is able to "check off the box" to move up into higher paying positions.
- WGU is endorsed by a sea of major corporations and has a QUALITY REPUTATION and standing in the general marketplace.
- The Payscale report for WGU in relation to the degree disciplines offered, are RIGHT ON PAR across the board as far as industry average salaries and pay-outs:
So when you say the institution is mediocre, do me a favor.....elaborate on your findings please . I know you won't be able to because just like other people in this thread, you just SPIT out statements without having a clue as to what you are talking about.
Last edited by jotucker99; 11-26-2014 at 09:32 PM..
Lol, okay. Care to elaborate? What do you mean by WGU is mediocre? You can't just throw out a statement like that with no elaboration my friend
- WGU is regionally accredited, created by 19 State Governors with 5 mirrored WGU State School/Institutions created by TX, IN, WA, MO and TN. In those five states, WGU TX, WGU IN, WGU WA, WGU MO and WGU TN are additional State Schools for those States in particular, allowing the students in those states to take advantage of various State based aid programs for the State based institution. Each Governor of those additional States rolled out the individual WGU State School with open arms and full press, adding to its list of State Institutions.
- WGU leads the nation in Teacher education and leads the nation in bringing competency based degrees to the forefront which drastically reduces the cost of degree acquisition while providing a higher confirmation that the student actually comprehends the material. You have other State Schools, like University of Wisconsin, that are copying the WGU competency program. The White House has praised and recommended WGU in terms of innovation in higher education. WGU has a flat tuition rate, allows you to accelerate to completion, and includes textbooks/resources in the PRICE of the tuition.
- WGU isn't for everybody, it's for those of us who just need a "check off the box" in terms of degree acquisition. Mainly, it's for those working adult professionals who didn't complete their full college degree program yet due to their hectic work schedules. By acquiring the degree, the individual is able to "check off the box" to move up into higher paying positions.
- WGU is endorsed by a sea of major corporations and has a QUALITY REPUTATION and standing in the general marketplace.
- The Payscale report for WGU in relation to the degree disciplines offered, are RIGHT ON PAR across the board as far as industry average salaries and pay-outs:
So when you say the institution is mediocre, do me a favor.....elaborate on your findings please . I know you won't be able to because just like other people in this thread, you just SPIT out statements without having a clue as to what you are talking about.
I'm not going to sit here and waste my time arguing with you because if your defense of that school is so strong, you're either a recruiter or really believe it made a difference on your career, which I would probably argue came before the degree. But then again, I don't know you or what you're doing right now and most of what you said is so out there, so...I will end with this. If you check your link, first off WGU has less than half as many individuals reporting as bigger name schools, so that skewers their results already. Next, the highest earners are in the 10-20 year bracket for experience. WGU is an online school, so its more likely that its top earners are already in high paying jobs with a lot of experience and need to just get a fast degree to receive a promotion. If they had more results for mid level to no experience professionals, their starting pay stats would go way down. But its not like they're through the roof right now anyways.
Lastly, the "typical early career salary" is also lower than many of the B schools.
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- WGU isn't for everybody, it's for those of us who just need a "check off the box" in terms of degree acquisition. Mainly, it's for those working adult professionals who didn't complete their full college degree program yet due to their hectic work schedules. By acquiring the degree, the individual is able to "check off the box" to move up into higher paying positions.
Reminds me of University of Phoenix, Devry, Grantham, Liberty University, American Military University, and "insert random collection of names" college here. Those tout their "credentials and accreditation" too. I know people who have attended those and were successful, but most were successful before they received degrees from those schools. In a way, I think having those colleges next to their names only set them back.
Problem with only online schools is that you can pay just as much now and get a better degree and education from a brick and mortar school and feel safe that it will be around in a few years. How many online and for-profit schools have closed their doors within the last few decades?
I'm not going to sit here and waste my time arguing with you because if your defense of that school is so strong, you're either a recruiter or really believe it made a difference on your career, which I would probably argue came before the degree.
I like how if you speak well of a college that someone else doesn't like, then you must be a recruiter lol. By your logic, are you a recruiter for Ivy League B-Schools?
I'm not saying that WGU is the greatest institution on the planet, no college is, it's just that when someone says the college is MEDIOCRE then that's a lie, and the points I listed efficiently proved that's a lie.
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USMCPOG
If you check your link, first off WGU has less than half as many individuals reporting as bigger name schools, so that skewers their results already.
That's just simply not true. Here's the links to Yale and Harvard:
WGU has 746 reporting, which is more than what's being reported at Yale. The amount of the reporting at WGU is enough to make reasonable projections.
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USMCPOG
Next, the highest earners are in the 10-20 year bracket for experience. WGU is an online school, so its more likely that its top earners are already in high paying jobs with a lot of experience and need to just get a fast degree to receive a promotion. If they had more results for mid level to no experience professionals, their starting pay stats would go way down. But its not like they're through the roof right now anyways.
How do you make some of these conclusions? How do you know most of the students are already TOP EARNERS before going to WGU? That can't be true, as a good amount of WGU students utilize financial aid (including Pell Grants).
At Yale and Harvard, 10-20 years experience or more averages around $117,000 and with WGU the average is about $80,000 which puts Yale and Harvard $37,000 more based on these stats (experience reporting). While WGU is behind, if you look at the total picture, this isn't a "bad" data result. Reason being, with WGU you more than likely graduated faster and of course with MUCH LESS DEBT.
Also scroll down to the bottom of the Harvard and WGU reports to see the MBA average pay-outs. Harvard MBAs make between $49,323 - $172,500 while WGU MBAs make between $42,705 - $94,018. I would bet that the Harvard MBAs pulling over $150,000 are in Wallstreet, Hedge Fund and I-Banking positions, which are those very RARE positions that you have to be very networked to obtain. I'm willing to bet the remaining Harvard MBAs will be making about $75k - $100k a year which is just about the SAME that a WGU MBA is making.
Software Engineers from Harvard make about $92k on average while IT Directors from WGU make about $103k on average. Engineering and IT are different fields, but the reporting shows you overall when you factor in all variables, WGU puts you in the running for the top paying jobs in your field WITHOUT the need to attend Harvard or a Top B-School. This has been my consistent stance and you are seeing data right here in front of you that supports my stance.
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USMCPOG
Reminds me of University of Phoenix, Devry, Grantham, Liberty University, American Military University, and "insert random collection of names" college here. Those tout their "credentials and accreditation" too. I know people who have attended those and were successful, but most were successful before they received degrees from those schools. In a way, I think having those colleges next to their names only set them back.
Firstly, besides Liberty, every listing you have there is a for profit school and WGU is a non profit college. Secondly, reports across the BOARD show that people who go to college and graduate were already the motivated, ambitious and more intellectually superior class of individuals of society before even attending the Universities. They were already "made" before they went to college and all the college did was either sharpen their skills and/or just provide that boost needed on their resume.
That's all college is utilized for anyway, while there is some "learning" involved, if you don't utilize what you learned in your daily work activities you are going to forget just about everything within 2 years - 4 years anyway. College across the BOARD is a "check off the list," as the list you are checking off is the requirement by Employers to have relevant experience (check), relevant references (check), good presentation/interviewing skills (check), and oh yeah, relevant education/degrees/certifications (check).
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USMCPOG
Problem with only online schools is that you can pay just as much now and get a better degree and education from a brick and mortar school and feel safe that it will be around in a few years. How many online and for-profit schools have closed their doors within the last few decades?
You can't put WGU in those same categories, I listed the major points with WGU above so good you said I must be recruiting for them lol. With all that WGU has going on, especially with the State Institutions, there's no way you can compare them to for-profit trash fly by night schools.
WGU was created by US Governors, not two guys named "Mark and Billy" charging people $850 a credit hour to learn basket-weaving.
And does it cross your mind that some of us CAN'T sit in on lectures because our work schedule wouldn't allow it? For example, I am working from morning to the evening, there's no way I could take time off work to sit in on classes because I have things to do, things to pay, etc. My only option was to complete the degrees online. The competency model was one that would allow me to get done faster and with a lower degree acquisition cost.
WGU has 746 reporting, which is more than what's being reported at Yale. The amount of the reporting at WGU is enough to make reasonable projections.
Of course it has more than those two, they are very selective colleges to get in with low rates while the other has much lower selective levels. Which do you think has more people reporting on it? I'm talking about middle to upper middle of the pack colleges...
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Firstly, besides Liberty, every listing you have there is a for profit school and WGU is a non profit college. Secondly, reports across the BOARD show that people who go to college and graduate were already the motivated, ambitious and more intellectually superior class of individuals of society before even attending the Universities. They were already "made" before they went to college and all the college did was either sharpen their skills and/or just provide that boost needed on their resume.
I know its a nonprofit, but its a strictly online college, which is the only reason why I compared it to those.
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And does it cross your mind that some of us CAN'T sit in on lectures because our work schedule wouldn't allow it? For example, I am working from morning to the evening, there's no way I could take time off work to sit in on classes because I have things to do, things to pay, etc. My only option was to complete the degrees online. The competency model was one that would allow me to get done faster and with a lower degree acquisition cost.
I never advocated sitting in a classroom. I'm advocating going to a brick and mortar college with an online program. There are plenty out there with better reputations, alumni associations, records, and networking opportunities out there. It doesn't have to be an IVY or Tier II. There are plenty of good state and private Tier III colleges out there at reasonable prices.
Of course it has more than those two, they are very selective colleges to get in with low rates while the other has much lower selective levels. Which do you think has more people reporting on it? I'm talking about middle to upper middle of the pack colleges...
I know its a nonprofit, but its a strictly online college, which is the only reason why I compared it to those.
I never advocated sitting in a classroom. I'm advocating going to a brick and mortar college with an online program. There are plenty out there with better reputations, alumni associations, records, and networking opportunities out there. It doesn't have to be an IVY or Tier II. There are plenty of good state and private Tier III colleges out there at reasonable prices.
Are you saying Liberty is a strictly online college? Or were you talking about WGU?
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