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I think it's important to take a look at the source of the information used by that CBS article. First of all the graduation rate is for 2010. It's not that old, but it's not that current. Second of all, only 42.4% of the students were counted. Only first-time freshmen who are attending full-time are counted; most of WGU's students are transfers. Institution | College Completion
You still don't get it and likely never will. You think only you are right and have closed your mind - so whatever.
WHAT GOOD IS GOING TO A SCHOOL THAT IS NOT WIDELY KNOWN AND HAS A 6.5% GRADUATION RATE?
DON'T YOU THINK THAT LOW GRADUATION RATE SIGNIFIES ANYTHING ABOUT THE INSTITUTION?
At CSU-G the students diploma reads "COLORADO STATE UNIVERSITY", so yeah, I think it'll be more widely recognized.
You said earlier that you weren't "defending" WGU but you SURE seem to be doing so quite vigorously my little student researcher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L210
All of that experience still hasn't given you an understanding of accreditation. How can you gauge other's understanding when you don't understand it yourself?
This is terrible advice. It is exceptionally rare that a nationally accredited school will rank in anything. They are the bottom of the barrel, credit transfer is limited, licensure options are limited, and graduate school options will be limited. In some fields, even employment options will be limited.
How many people have heard of Colorado State University Global Campus? If someone confuses it with Colorado State University - Fort Collins, then his or her opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.
Why not? You're recommending that people attend nationally accredited schools. Very few are well-respected outside of the field of theology, and degrees from nationally accredited schools will have many more limitations than a degree from WGU.
In 2010 it had the LOWEST GRADUATION RATE of a private school in the country; even if in reality the graduation rate is actually TRIPLE that figure (then or in 2014) it's still terrible, even for an online school.
I read in another source that it's 22% (WGU didn't even mention it in its annual report that I could find), which still means that fewer than 1/4 of the students enrolled actually finish.
Like another poster said, if you have to defend a school, look elsewhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L210
I think it's important to take a look at the source of the information used by that CBS article. First of all the graduation rate is for 2010. It's not that old, but it's not that current. Second of all, only 42.4% of the students were counted. Only first-time freshmen who are attending full-time are counted; most of WGU's students are transfers. Institution | College Completion
Yeah, that is a common way to tabulate graduation rates.
You mean YOU didn't KNOW that? I thought you knew it all?
Again, even if it's higher (I saw some figures at about 22%) . . . if more than 3/4 of your students aren't finishing, transfer or not, there is a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L210
I think it's important to take a look at the source of the information used by that CBS article. First of all the graduation rate is for 2010. It's not that old, but it's not that current. Second of all, only 42.4% of the students were counted. Only first-time freshmen who are attending full-time are counted; most of WGU's students are transfers. Institution | College Completion
I'd like to apologize to the original poster here -- because I made a mistake originally (which according to some is unforgivable, especially if you have a PhD like me and should "know better") this thread went way off track.
But I felt quite attacked by L210 and their seemingly insane defense of a marginal online school.
If you do some research and choose someplace accredited (make sure you ask if the credits can transfer and to where), and look at graduation rates, as well as stick with non-profit institutions/programs, you'll be fine.
WGU would not be the worst choice you could make (The University of Phoenix might be), but there are simply better schools/programs out there.
Oh, and of course you need to be pretty motivated to do well as an online student -- especially at a place like WGU which offers little in the way of student support.
You still don't get it and likely never will. You think only you are right and have closed your mind - so whatever.
WHAT GOOD IS GOING TO A SCHOOL THAT IS NOT WIDELY KNOWN AND HAS A 6.5% GRADUATION RATE?
DON'T YOU THINK THAT LOW GRADUATION RATE SIGNIFIES ANYTHING ABOUT THE INSTITUTION?
At CSU-G the students diploma reads "COLORADO STATE UNIVERSITY", so yeah, I think it'll be more widely recognized.
More widely recognized as the wrong school by people who don't know any better. CSU-Global is an unranked school that has about as many students as a large high school and is less than 10 years old. CSU-Global is not anything to brag about. It's like bragging about Texas A&M, Commerce as if it were Texas A&M, College Station. People who know better know the difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor46
Why do you continue to defend this school?
In 2010 it had the LOWEST GRADUATION RATE of a private school in the country; even if in reality the graduation rate is actually TRIPLE that figure (then or in 2014) it's still terrible, even for an online school.
I read in another source that it's 22% (WGU didn't even mention it in its annual report that I could find), which still means that fewer than 1/4 of the students enrolled actually finish.
Like another poster said, if you have to defend a school, look elsewhere.
The school wouldn't need any defense if you wouldn't spread any misinformation. I hate University of Phoenix, but every time someone says it's not accredited, I speak up. The spread of misinformation just really gets to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor46
Yeah, that is a common way to tabulate graduation rates.
You mean YOU didn't KNOW that? I thought you knew it all?
Again, even if it's higher (I saw some figures at about 22%) . . . if more than 3/4 of your students aren't finishing, transfer or not, there is a problem.
You still don't get it. As a non-traditional school, WGU has more transfer students than your average college. You can't do a direct comparison of the graduation rates since most of WGU's students are not counted. You do not know if 3/4 of WGU students are not graduating because
1. The graduation rate is for undergraduate students only. WGU DOES have graduate students.
2. The graduation rate only accounts for a minority of WGU's undergraduate students.
The graduation rates of MBA students would be much more relevant to the OP. First-time freshmen and potential graduate students are two completely different groups.
What good would it do to graduate from a nationally accredited school if your degree isn't recognized? I'm not saying that's the case with the MBA, but this could be detrimental when trying to become licensed. What if your state's accountancy board only recognizes regionally accredited degrees and you so proudly graduated with a degree from a nationally accredited school? I had students who so proudly graduated with their degrees from a nationally accredited school, but here are their problems:
1. None of the law enforcement agencies in the area even require a degree.
2. Two of the largest law enforcement agencies in the area will give you educational incentive pay if you have a degree, but only if it's from a regionally accredited school.
3. One of the law enforcement agencies gives hiring preference to those with a degree, but only if it comes from a regionally accredited school.
4. Many police departments give incentive pay for higher levels of certification. You can get those higher levels of certification years earlier if you have a degree, but the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement does not recognize degrees from nationally accredited schools.
5. Some of the agencies that do require college credits or a degree will only count credits or degrees earned from regionally accredited schools.
6. Only two universities in the area will accept their transfer credits: Devry and University of Phoenix.
Their degrees are almost a complete waste of money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor46
I'd like to apologize to the original poster here -- because I made a mistake originally (which according to some is unforgivable, especially if you have a PhD like me and should "know better") this thread went way off track.
But I felt quite attacked by L210 and their seemingly insane defense of a marginal online school.
If you do some research and choose someplace accredited (make sure you ask if the credits can transfer and to where), and look at graduation rates, as well as stick with non-profit institutions/programs, you'll be fine.
WGU would not be the worst choice you could make (The University of Phoenix might be), but there are simply better schools/programs out there.
Oh, and of course you need to be pretty motivated to do well as an online student -- especially at a place like WGU which offers little in the way of student support.
Good luck and best wishes!
The "professor" didn't even notice that this thread is almost a year old. The OP has probably picked a program by now.
I don't think you understand how competency-based programs are supposed to work. They are meant for self-directed learners. They aren't meant for people who need hand-holding. Competency-based programs are meant to benefit those with prior learning and work experience in the field study. If you need hand-holding and are brand new to the field of study, then you shouldn't attend any competency-based program at any school. I'm not even sure if there is any regionally accredited competency-based program you can compare to WGU because the ones I've seen are all too new to have graduation rates.
That 6.5% graduation rate you keep mentioning is for the 2004 entering class. WGU has since increased its admissions standards for several programs requiring either work experience in the field, a professional certification, or an associate's degree in the field. CSU-Global doesn't even offer an MBA, so this whole thing is a moot point. CSU-Global also doesn't admit students who don't have prior college credits, so they will have no graduation rate for first-time freshmen.
I say get the degree you feel you must get, in any school which enables you to do so given your circumstances. Avoid the pseudo-intellectual pinheads who scream that you must enroll in a "top" whatever school based on some ridiculous ranking in a publication like US News and World Report. What you know is far more important than where you learned it. I think online schools are a great option, providing the means for more people to advance their education.
Any online school which is nationally or regionally-accredited is sufficient. Online schools are relatively new, and the accreditation process takes quite a long time. If a school is nationally-accredited, this doesn't mean that it provides an inferior education. It just means that it's new enough to be in the process of becoming regionally-accredited. Also, the quality of the education you get in ANY school depends on the level of effort you put into it. You get out of it what you put into it. I don't penalize any school, just because it has fewer mechanisms in place to prevent slackers from coasting through the program to get a degree. If it provides the means for the best students to learn in a challenging environment, that's good enough for me. Also, the graduation rate means nothing when you're talking about online schools. Online schools are cheaper, and people generally enroll with circumstances which make it more likely than not thet they may have to drop out. These are people with FT jobs, kids, babysitter problems, long commutes, their own businesses, and so forth. Ignore the graduation rate nonsense. What matters is your circumstance, and whether you will be able to stick with it long enough to graduate.
If the degree you desire complements the background you already have, and you can envision great use for such a degree in how you present yourself to the world, by all means get the degree in whatever manner best suits your circumstances. Firms who don't respect your choice are not the kind of places you want to work at anyway.
I'm done wasting my time talking to you my little student researcher L210 . . . you are just wasting my time.
Oh, and in case you (who are oh so intelligent) didn't notice, you've been participating in a year old conversation too. Whether the thread is old or not, I felt I owed the OP an apology since it was hijacked.
Unlike you, I'm not rude.
Now, go back to your student researching, and I'll go back to finishing my 3rd book; my publisher wants my manuscript by Friday.
P.S. - I still find your "defense" of WGU strange, especially when days ago you went to such lengths to say you were not defending it. What a crock!
Quote:
Originally Posted by L210
The "professor" didn't even notice that this thread is almost a year old. The OP has probably picked a program by now.
While I fully agree with your advice throughout . . . I'm not sure your concluding thought is going to be of much comfort to someone who is unemployed and can't pay their bills because their bad degree or school choice is making them non-competitive. Oh, and then there are the likely student loans they may have.
This from Robert Reich just today after the DOL put out its recent report;
" . . . more than 7 million are working part-time jobs but need full-time work (compared to 4.6 million part-timers before the recession). Overall, 2 million fewer Americans have full-time work now than before the downturn. And, did I mention, most peoples' wages are still going nowhere?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexusNexus
If the degree you desire complements the background you already have, and you can envision great use for such a degree in how you present yourself to the world, by all means get the degree in whatever manner best suits your circumstances. Firms who don't respect your choice are not the kind of places you want to work at anyway.
FWIW I hold a nationally accredited (NA) degree and am currently working on another NA degree. I know all about limitations, but it works for me. And according to Distance Education and Training Council | National Accreditor of Distance Education Institutions it does for most NA grads as well. But I'm a somewhat older student and I have to work at my own pace since I work crazy hours owning my own business. So would I advise a young student to get a regionally accredited degree? You bet. In fact my daughter is a sophomore in my state's university. Less limitations and more options. But again, for the right person in the right situation, NA is just fine.
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I Give Up!
