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Some don't. Many do. The body shops like Infosys and Wipro don't care; they just want a body they can pay a lot less than they charge for.
Infosys and Wipro don't bring in people for computer science. Those who come in here to do computer science are the best of the best. The tech industry doesn't want the rest. That's why they're paid big bucks.
An L.A. Times opinon piece today by Michael Hiltzig states there is no shortage of U.S. STEM graduates. The real reason companies keep harping on the need to bring in more immigrants, according to him, is that employers save money by hiring foreign workers instead of Americans.
Are graduates of U.S science and engineering programs really having a difficult time finding work in the tech industry these days?
I agree with this. I'm a former engineer. I tried for years to find an engineering job when I was downsized out of the company I worked for and couldn't get an interview. I'd say it was me except I know several former engineers who were let go in their 40's/50's who have also not been able to find work in their field since being downsized out. I will believe there is a STEM shortage when a 50 year old engineer with 35 years of experience can actually get a job interview.
This opinion piece is correct. What there is a shortage of is cheap workers. If you're older like me you're in a catch 22. If you ask for an entry level wage they wonder why you don't value your skills. If you ask for a wage that matches your skills they hire the foreigner who is cheaper. I'm convinced there is no STEM shortage. They're keeping the field glutted so wages stay down.
I'm now a teacher and I see the same thing in teaching. Again they claim there is a shortage of STEM teachers but I've never been less than 1 of 12 applying for a position and I've been 1 of 150 applying for a position. We have a glut of STEM workers all around except in a few select areas that require very specific talent.
I would warn any STEM majors entering the work field to SAVE, SAVE, SAVE. If there is a downturn in the economy and you are unlucky enough to be let go you will find you cannot compete with foreign workers and new graduates unless you have some specific skill set that is in high demand. I was an automotive engineer. Now that the auto companies are recovering and hiring they're hiring new grads NOT the people they let go during the downturn in the economy. While I feel for young people today who are struggling to find work, I feel for the 45 year olds who were downsized out 20 years before a planned retirement and were never able to restart their careers more.
IMO, we should not be allowing foreigners in the country until our own people, both new grads and older workers, are employed.
It appears that you're highly misguided. Those being hired for computer science jobs on H1Bs do not have dubious credentials.
The top universities from these foreign nations exceed the "low quality" (why are we quoting?) universities in the U.S. as the previous poster implied.
For example, India's top engineering universities have a 2% admission rate. That is more selective than MIT and Harvard (btw, these schools have a lot of faculty from MIT and Harvard). Compare that to CUNY's acceptance rate of 33.9% and CCNY's acceptance rate of 32.5%. The quality of students going in is far superior in math, science and engineering. India and China also has a much higher population than the United States. Enough to put out higher quality students in larger numbers.
You can't judge a student just by their GPA. GPA's only measure coursework performance and suffer from massive curves and grade inflation in the United States. Assess the student as a whole, instead.
Just like how someone admitted into a competitive program in the United States is, statistically, more competent than someone admitted to a mediocre program, those admitted to competitive programs in these other countries are superior to those admitted to schools with high acceptance rates.
Additionally, studying under faculty that is best rated in their respective field will yield better results than studying under joe schmoe.
Finally, your exposure to research and practice at the university level plays a major role. Research grants at Peking University rival the $2 billion in research grants that John Hopkins receives. That kind of learning opportunity just doesn't exist at most local schools.
So to put it in simple terms, technology companies are looking for top quality computer scientists. Even with 4.0 GPAs, you'll only find a few here and there at CCNY/CUNY compared to MIT, Princeton and similar schools around the world.
I don't think you understand the field at all. Perhaps you are projecting the aristocratic pedigree paradigm of the legal profession onto computer science. Those who study "Computer Science", as I did, seek employment in myriad roles. You are creating a false dichotomy when you imply that "computer science" graduates are only those who obtain positions working on the next cutting edge app for Google et al. Computer Science graduates work as developers, business analysts, database administrators just as attorneys work as document reviewers and slip and fall litigators. The fact that they are pursuing more mundane tasks does not screen either the ambulance chaser or the coder out of their respective profession. I would grant that there are bona fide experts with rara avis skill sets that should be welcomed with open arms; that is why we have the "O" visa. I won't bother to cherry pick statistics on the abuse of the H-1B visa; I will leave it to you to seek out the research of Ron Hira and Norm Matloff should you desire. Admittedly, this is purely anecdotal but I have a friend with an undergraduate degree in CS from MIT and an MS from Princeton. He is in his 40s and is barely keeping his head above water with paltry paying contract jobs.
It appears that you're highly misguided. Those being hired for computer science jobs on H1Bs do not have dubious credentials.
.
Most of them come from Tata or Infosys as not too many companies hire H1-B directly.
The majority of these Indian contractors are freshers.
Sure they have degrees, sure they went to college but they are not the "unique skills" that everyone talks about.
They are freshers that get a year or two of experience under their belt so they can get much better paying jobs with the US multinationals that have offices over there.
A "new hire" right out of college gets much less salary than a "professional hire" with a few years experience.
I agree with this. I'm a former engineer. I tried for years to find an engineering job when I was downsized out of the company I worked for and couldn't get an interview. I'd say it was me except I know several former engineers who were let go in their 40's/50's who have also not been able to find work in their field since being downsized out. I will believe there is a STEM shortage when a 50 year old engineer with 35 years of experience can actually get a job interview.
This opinion piece is correct. What there is a shortage of is cheap workers. If you're older like me you're in a catch 22. If you ask for an entry level wage they wonder why you don't value your skills. If you ask for a wage that matches your skills they hire the foreigner who is cheaper. I'm convinced there is no STEM shortage. They're keeping the field glutted so wages stay down.
I'm now a teacher and I see the same thing in teaching. Again they claim there is a shortage of STEM teachers but I've never been less than 1 of 12 applying for a position and I've been 1 of 150 applying for a position. We have a glut of STEM workers all around except in a few select areas that require very specific talent.
I would warn any STEM majors entering the work field to SAVE, SAVE, SAVE. If there is a downturn in the economy and you are unlucky enough to be let go you will find you cannot compete with foreign workers and new graduates unless you have some specific skill set that is in high demand. I was an automotive engineer. Now that the auto companies are recovering and hiring they're hiring new grads NOT the people they let go during the downturn in the economy. While I feel for young people today who are struggling to find work, I feel for the 45 year olds who were downsized out 20 years before a planned retirement and were never able to restart their careers more.
IMO, we should not be allowing foreigners in the country until our own people, both new grads and older workers, are employed.
I agree with your post 100%. There is no shortage of stem workers and all chemists, scientists, and engineers work in research and development sector of companies. Research costs money and when funding gets cut R&D jobs are the first to get cut. I am a chemist and I am saving as much money as I can to be prepared when another recession happens because I know layoffs of science staff is going to happen when the money gets tight.
Infosys and Wipro don't bring in people for computer science. Those who come in here to do computer science are the best of the best. The tech industry doesn't want the rest. That's why they're paid big bucks.
They're brought in under the same visa category, however; they compete with the tech industry for those visas. And most of those going to work for the tech companies are also not doing "computer science", if by that you mean research-type positions.
Most of them come from Tata or Infosys as not too many companies hire H1-B directly.
The majority of these Indian contractors are freshers.
Sure they have degrees, sure they went to college but they are not the "unique skills" that everyone talks about.
They are freshers that get a year or two of experience under their belt so they can get much better paying jobs with the US multinationals that have offices over there.
A "new hire" right out of college gets much less salary than a "professional hire" with a few years experience.
Those companies aren't bringing in people for computer science positions. They are bringing them in for IT jobs.
Any software/hedge fund start-up w/a smart founder who wants to maximize own wealth will hire the smartest ~15yo HS dropouts who can trade and/or code well for $200K/yr and unknown-value stock in unknown-value start-up
The semi-smart kids today spend $250K and 2-4yrs of oppty cost to go to Stanf CS and get a less lucrative job $200K/yr job w/dead stock at some big, dumb co. like AAPL, GOOGL, FB, etc where the big money was made many yrs ago and now it's just old losers seeking comfortable lifestyle jobs
Kids who chose alleged "STEM" fields like math/physics/EE/other engg., etc are just moron poors forever unless they can find way out of their errors to some hedge fund/software start-up to make real money and achieve freedom
Not many smart kids/yr, not many lucrative cos. w/big stock comp....been that way forever
But everyone self-selects: more opptys today for a smart, self-taught kid than anytime in history, even vs 10-15y ago
99+% of cos. are losers w/lots of mediocre/worse jobs, to produce similar-quality products/svcs (think MSFT, GOOGL, GS, any car co., etc etc).....they tend to attract/retain similar workers....self-selection is part of creative destruction and capitalism....ultimately, investors/customers/workers judge any biz in their own bets w/own money, time and skills...
Any software/hedge fund start-up w/a smart founder who wants to maximize own wealth will hire the smartest ~15yo HS dropouts who can trade and/or code well for $200K/yr and unknown-value stock in unknown-value start-up
The semi-smart kids today spend $250K and 2-4yrs of oppty cost to go to Stanf CS and get a less lucrative job $200K/yr job w/dead stock at some big, dumb co. like AAPL, GOOGL, FB, etc where the big money was made many yrs ago and now it's just old losers seeking comfortable lifestyle jobs
Kids who chose alleged "STEM" fields like math/physics/EE/other engg., etc are just moron poors forever unless they can find way out of their errors to some hedge fund/software start-up to make real money and achieve freedom
Not many smart kids/yr, not many lucrative cos. w/big stock comp....been that way forever
But everyone self-selects: more opptys today for a smart, self-taught kid than anytime in history, even vs 10-15y ago
99+% of cos. are losers w/lots of mediocre/worse jobs, to produce similar-quality products/svcs (think MSFT, GOOGL, GS, any car co., etc etc).....they tend to attract/retain similar workers....self-selection is part of creative destruction and capitalism....ultimately, investors/customers/workers judge any biz in their own bets w/own money, time and skills...
Late night drivel unless you can provide links to substantiated metrics.
Myth or not the quota for H1-Bs fills up in no time each year they open up.
Other countries graduate way more STEM students then the US.
Other countries have caught up and provide their own strong STEM base for offshored jobs.
Sure we worry about STEM and we're in the schools promoting it to no end.
Sad part though is that PC has gotten in the way and we're concentrating on the wrong groups.
But to concentrate on the right groups (AP students that have above average Math/Science aptitude) would be seen in a bad light.
I participated in Girls in Engineering for a while. We focused on the students who were failing math and in remediation. Like that is going to do any good. I stopped participating when I saw it was more of a feel good program with no intention of achieving any goal.
Every time someone says other countries it means they don't know what they are talking about. There are about 200 countries in the world. Are you telling me Somalia, Bosnia, and Afghanistan graduate more STEM people than the US?
You've just demonstrated your OWN lack of education.
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