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Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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It is still very easy to get the relatively high paying night / weekend jobs I used to pay my way through Engineering college. (I just completed #5 degree in 2008. post age 50, still working simultaneously at 3 non-profits (no pay)) + teaching at 2 CC's
But you need to start EARLY to get required training / experience, otherwise, take a gap yr and get it BEFORE college (I did that + was a farm kid, so already knew most of this stuff, + I had been 'aid' in HS).
Usually unlimited overtime in these jobs: (I made more / yr in OT that I did in straight wages (for 30+ yrs)
Welding $20 - $40
Trucking $18 - $25
Machinist $20 - $30
CAD / Designer $20 - $50
Summer Harvest crew = ~ $15k
There are so many OTHER ways to make big / college bucks now.
Several of my kids friends wrote apps, blogs, sell / rep commercial accts on-line.
a local manufacturing company takes college kids ($20+/ hr) in place of workers who are willing to take the summer off w/o pay. (I did that for 10 yrs to give TEACHERS my great paying job during summers)
One friend bought 2 duplexes which provided cash flow for college.
My kids traded stocks during school yr,
One did - Wildland Firefighter ($25k) 8 weeks
one did - Alaska Fishing ($30k) 6 weeks.
one summer as fire paramedic - $30k
3 of my coworkers did the Alaska fishing 'school earning' gig
2 did wildland fire fighting (crew bosses)
I taught my kids design / CAD during Jr High, so they could have used that for income.
They designed and built, then sold their own houses (during grade 9 and 10) $70k profit each
Each had $20k+ in ROTH by College
School $$ are VERY cheap for students to get, parent can pay back with deflated $$.
If students pay their own way they are very unlikely to 'delay' college graduation by changing major a few times.
^^Surely you jest. Some of the jobs you mention require certifications, licensing, etc. There aren't many manufacturing jobs left in this country. Paramedics need to be trained. How did your kids build these houses without you fronting some money to them?
Most kids are making minimum wage or barely more in the jobs they have while in college.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 10-30-2016 at 08:18 AM..
It is still very easy to get the relatively high paying night / weekend jobs I used to pay my way through Engineering college. (I just completed #5 degree in 2008. post age 50, still working simultaneously at 3 non-profits (no pay)) + teaching at 2 CC's
But you need to start EARLY to get required training / experience, otherwise, take a gap yr and get it BEFORE college (I did that + was a farm kid, so already knew most of this stuff, + I had been 'aid' in HS).
Usually unlimited overtime in these jobs: (I made more / yr in OT that I did in straight wages (for 30+ yrs)
Welding $20 - $40
Trucking $18 - $25
Machinist $20 - $30
CAD / Designer $20 - $50
Summer Harvest crew = ~ $15k
There are so many OTHER ways to make big / college bucks now.
Several of my kids friends wrote apps, blogs, sell / rep commercial accts on-line.
a local manufacturing company takes college kids ($20+/ hr) in place of workers who are willing to take the summer off w/o pay. (I did that for 10 yrs to give TEACHERS my great paying job during summers)
One friend bought 2 duplexes which provided cash flow for college.
My kids traded stocks during school yr,
One did - Wildland Firefighter ($25k) 8 weeks
one did - Alaska Fishing ($30k) 6 weeks.
one summer as fire paramedic - $30k
3 of my coworkers did the Alaska fishing 'school earning' gig
2 did wildland fire fighting (crew bosses)
I taught my kids design / CAD during Jr High, so they could have used that for income.
They designed and built, then sold their own houses (during grade 9 and 10) $70k profit each
Each had $20k+ in ROTH by College
School $$ are VERY cheap for students to get, parent can pay back with deflated $$.
If students pay their own way they are very unlikely to 'delay' college graduation by changing major a few times.
While this is very inspiring, your story is not typical or reasonable at all. It reminds me of a friend of my daughter who needed a job after college. Her dad called in a favor and one of his buddies "created" a new job at his company for the recent grad. I believe that her starting wages were $80,000, maybe $100,000 a year. She can't understand why many of her friends were struggling with low paying jobs right out of college. She actually told my daughter "Just have a business partner or friend of your parents hire you at their company. You won't even have to apply and you will get a great salary." The woman truly does not realize that her experience is not a typical experience for most college grads.
Freshman and sophomores in high school designing, building and selling their own house to earn money for college? It is possible that your children may be the only children in the entire United States that did that (or at least one of only a small handful). It is hardly a path that you can suggest to the general population of students.
And, those other jobs, welding, trucking, mechanist all require training or licensees or skills that are not typically available to most students.
tnff covered this well. I'll just add, that's a good way to end up not getting a degree at all. Trade school courses, even those taken at a CC, don't usually transfer at all. Plus, there's always the chance that while working this trade, you'll meet "the one"; get married; buy a house, cars, and then be really financially strapped. For all the talk about "gap years", the statistics show otherwise. U.S. college dropouts rates: Explained in 4 charts. "Traditional students—kids enrolled full time at four-year colleges by their 20th birthday—are very likely to finish school. Nontraditional students—pretty much everybody else—aren't. Traditional students—kids enrolled full time at four-year colleges by their 20th birthday—are very likely to finish school. Nontraditional students—pretty much everybody else—aren't."
It's all about prioritization. The people that ended up not finishing, in most cases, decided that it was a lower priority than doing the other things you mentioned. It's up to each person's choice. If they choose to do that, that's their right. But it doesn't mean that one cannot choose to prioritize education over reaching the "American Dream" as soon as possible.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,745 posts, read 58,102,528 times
Reputation: 46237
Not at all unique for farm and builder / homeschool kids to know / participate in these 'well paying / lifelong skill' activites. Many own their own companies while in grade 9-12+. You can easily get the certs within your HS vocational time (If you are employed and engaged in your trade, as you should be!). Truck driving school is 6 wks and paid by many companies. Wildland fire school is 2 weeks and keeping your certs current (as teachers need to do). AK fishing just takes guts. The first 2 yrs is rough. Beats doing Nothing! The unique / international friendships my kids gleaned doing these tough, disciplined, and demanding jobs was very important to them. (Kept them incented to pay / complete college.)
There are plenty of skilled jobs in growing communities, One (who desired) could find 10 manufacturing jobs tomorrow. Our nieghbor has 80 manf employees, and he would gladly hire more tomorrow (if they can do math and read a tape measure).
This certainly is not unique to our area. We stayed with a commune in Boston where all the youth were 'indentured' into a trade by age 13. Their parents were mostly teachers and IT contractors, the commune ran several businesses that the youth participated in. Many went on to IVY League, paying their own way, via trades they had learned.
Sure, I fronted the money to buy the scenic view lots for my kid's homes, you would do the same for yours... what is the risk? You will get paid back 100% in 2 yrs. Is there a better value? (I say NO, cuz, as a PARENT, (Purposed on developing responsible, civic volunteer kids to adulthood) . I would have never considered 'giving' them money for school, cars, clothes...). After all, we were a family... everyone was pouring concrete and pounding nails Together! For many yrs. (as well as working / schooling FT)
Of course we all parent / educate differently, and our own path was far from perfect. Our kids learned a lot, especially from the 20 hrs / week we (as a family) donated to our public schools. Sad to see how little those students are learning.
Since I teach / hire / live internationally... I can say... "Only in USA, can you occupy yourself in a failed K-20 Public Education system and THEN realize you are incapable, or disinterested in your chosen career.". With my kid paying 100% of college, the risk of them dropping out / getting a 'passive / so-so' education was very low.
Do you see any problem that less the 25% of USA STEM graduates will remain in their field over 5 yrs after graduation? We have an Ill equipped country.
Last edited by StealthRabbit; 10-30-2016 at 01:53 PM..
If she ever moves away (which is rather unlikely, as she is marrying her hometown HS BF) I agree that it probably would not be a problem.
But, the concern that her aunts & uncles have (who live in that area) is that this "special program" is starting to be fairly well known, and is not well respected, in the business community. It is considered barely one step up from getting a degree from a for profit college. It is really sad because the two year college campus used to be considered one of the best in the state (among the two year campuses).
OTOH, she does not have any college debt which will be good for when she gets married (right after graduation).
I've been thinking a lot about this strategy often advised for saving money: going to a CC to get the general education req's out of the way, then transferring to a 4-yr university. That may be fine for some students, but others will miss out on discovering exciting fields of study at a 4-year university early on in their college career, that could make a huge difference in their lives. For example, the student you mention got a very generic, ho hum degree. That's fine if all one wants is the piece of paper, but it doesn't seem to have done her much good. Having a huge variety of disciplines to try out from the get go, as a state university would offer, can do a lot to get students fired up about education, and to help them find a career direction in life--something they're passionate about. That can really make a difference in someone's life; it can be transformational. They could miss that opportunity for discovery by spending their first two years at a CC. The student you cite, who basically spent FOUR years at a CC, still, I gather, has no idea what she wants out of life, and has no career direction, it sounds like.
Holding students back in order to save money, or to over-protect them (as some parents do) from "getting lost" in a big university can adversely affect their entire future life trajectory, including their future earning power.
Wilderness/state forest/national forest firefighter jobs are hard to get. I actually looked into it when I was a student. Alaska salmon fishing works great if you're a permit-holder, but if you're just a deckhand, not so much, especially if the fish run is low in a given summer. And fishing in the Bering Sea is extremely dangerous, though not all fishing jobs are out there.
Cashiering at union grocery stores pays $25; there's no need to take dangerous jobs to make a decent wage in school.
From the programs and schools I'm familiar with, I don't see how anyone could work pretty much full time during the school year and do full time school. Several of us kept track and between classes, homework, labs, and research, we averaged between 90 to 120 hours a week on academics. Typical do for us was hit the physics bldg. about 730, spend most of the day there unless we had a class elsewhere, grab lunch at the dining hall if we didn't have a class and then back for lab at 1 PM. Grab supper about 5 and then back to the lab by 6. Generally research/homework until 11 or midnight, though some of the labs required early morning hours when no one was around due to vibration from people in the building.
Summertime? That was for research internships if you could get them.
Rather agree with this post and your other about state flagship schools.
If it's not being in a lab, then it's rehearsal time or maybe the student's program requires a practicum and observations in some sort of institutional setting. Other problems with full-time employment is transportation. If you can't get on-campus employment, then depending on the school's location, off-campus employment might be very limited or requires a car that the student does not have. The priority should be an internship during the summer, even it it's unpaid. It's an investment with a return later.
Perhaps, some students can't afford to eat because they spent their money on frat or sorority dues. Maybe, they go out on weekends, buying a few beers and splitting a cab. Most schools require their freshmen to be on the meal plan.
As for flagship state schools. Yeah some are not all that prestigious, but not everyone is going to get into a "selective" school. That's why they are considered selective.
Who says students have to enter college right out of high school, live in a flea-infested apartment with half a dozen other people they barely know, bust their tails working 2-3 jobs for min wage, while taking courses they can hardly get to with no time to study, drive an old rust bucket car that's a hazard on the road, live malnourished eating ramen during their final growth spurt, all to get a half baked "degree" they can't peddle? Is there some implied valor in all this sacrifice?
I recently reconnected with some old friends. We lost touch after high school Money was tight, so he went into the military. Then, he attended a community college on the GI bill, while living with relatives, became an RN, then got a certificate in cardio physiology, is now head of a cardio lab at a major hospital making 6 figures + benefits. He never starved, was malnourished, or lived hand-to-mouth. He simply utilized the recourses available to him as he progressed. What did he do wrong?
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". With my kid paying 100% of college, the risk of them dropping out / getting a 'passive / so-so' education was very low.
