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Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,811 posts, read 58,359,620 times
Reputation: 46317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz
168 hours in a week. If we assume 8 hours per night of sleeping, that leaves 112 hours of wakefulness per week. The hours quoted in the OP add up to 64, which leaves 48 hours that need to be accounted for. ..., I would like to see analysis which leaves no time unaccounted for
48hrs is perfect for a FT job. I was really lucky to work night shift and get paid lunch + only 7.5 hrs physically on the job / day (37.5hrs / week). Got off at 2AM, did a milk route 2am - 6AM PT job, slept an hour or 2 and commuted 40 min each way to college. Did homework at college between classes, got back home in time to fix lunch and get to work by 6pm
Sleep is over-rated. At college age, 4 hrs is plenty (and many don't get that much).
Since I had a weekend OTR trucking PT job I had to sleep a few hrs before starting that gig (4 states & 863 mile route 3x / weekend). PT job at service station on Sunday 6AM -noon, then did laundry and cooked for the week Sunday afternoons.
I was shocked how many high earning parents of my children's friends, made their kids taking students loans. These parents took vacations when I saved every cent for my kids education.
If there is loan forgiveness, I will be so p*ssed off. I paid for my kids education because my high earning parents refused to help at all.
Here's the thing many people aren't aware of until they do the college paperwork. The whole college financial system is based on the parents ability to pay, not whether they actually contribute a dime or not. So a kid with parents who can afford college but refuse to pay is totally screwed because that kid will be charged what the formula says they can afford. In fact, it's worse than that. Two families, same income, age, family size, etc. One scrimps, does without, saves for college and retirement. The other buys the big fancy house, new cars, big vacations. The system will expect the family that saved to pay more than the family that didn't.
It's getting worse. The formulas for college payments were based on late 60s/early 70s economic data, cost of living, demographics, etc. They have not been updated even though we are in a totally different economic condition than 1970. The middle class is being squeezed out by this system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz
168 hours in a week. If we assume 8 hours per night of sleeping, that leaves 112 hours of wakefulness per week. The hours quoted in the OP add up to 64, which leaves 48 hours that need to be accounted for. Surely we could assume half of these to be used up either going to class, or in transport, etc. That still leaves 24, which perhaps might be devoted to meals/errands/miscellaneous tasks of daily living, but, I would like to see analysis which leaves no time unaccounted for
I don't know of a college kid that gets 8 hours sleep. I didn't, nor did my friends or my kids. I always considered working my first job a breeze compared to college.
I agree. College should be two years. Get right to the major you want to study for. The first year of college, now is basic math, history, science, a review of all high schools stuff, nothing to do with your major.
Math, history, science etc. has quite a bit to do with your major. There's no way you can get a college education in two years. Most of the education comes from beyond the classroom. 4 years is difficult to begin with, but doable with dedication.
168 hours in a week. If we assume 8 hours per night of sleeping, that leaves 112 hours of wakefulness per week. The hours quoted in the OP add up to 64, which leaves 48 hours that need to be accounted for. Surely we could assume half of these to be used up either going to class, or in transport, etc. That still leaves 24, which perhaps might be devoted to meals/errands/miscellaneous tasks of daily living, but, I would like to see analysis which leaves no time unaccounted for
The typical estimate allots at least 1 hr. of study for every hour in class. Some estimate 2 hrs. At minimum in a schedule of 15 class hours/week (not counting science labs, if any) for 3 courses 5 days/week, that would be 15 hours of study. That estimate doesn't include extra hours for research and writing of a term project for at least one class per semester, so throw in another roughly 4-6 hrs. on weekends.
Realistically, the total comes to at least 20 hrs. of study per week, and that's for the students who only dedicate 1 hr. of study/night per class hour. Many do twice that, so 30 hrs./week plus weekly lab hours some semesters, and research project hours in addition.
The typical estimate allots at least 1 hr. of study for every hour in class. Some estimate 2 hrs. At minimum in a schedule of 15 class hours/week (not counting science labs, if any) for 3 courses 5 days/week, that would be 15 hours of study. That estimate doesn't include extra hours for research and writing of a term project for at least one class per semester, so throw in another roughly 4-6 hrs. on weekends.
Realistically, the total comes to at least 20 hrs. of study per week, and that's for the students who only dedicate 1 hr. of study/night per class hour. Many do twice that, so 30 hrs./week plus weekly lab hours some semesters, and research project hours in addition.
1 hour of study in addition to 1 hour of lecture, 1 hour of reading, and 1 hour of research.
It's an estimate, but you should plan on spending 4 hours per credit on these activities. So for 15 credits, that's 60 hours out of the 168 hour week. Again, not for just studying, but for all activities.
Often students will skip lecture and dedicate more time to reading or research. For some classes, students may skip studying to make more time for research. It does vary, but the total time estimate stays the same.
Here's the thing many people aren't aware of until they do the college paperwork. The whole college financial system is based on the parents ability to pay, not whether they actually contribute a dime or not. So a kid with parents who can afford college but refuse to pay is totally screwed because that kid will be charged what the formula says they can afford. In fact, it's worse than that. Two families, same income, age, family size, etc. One scrimps, does without, saves for college and retirement. The other buys the big fancy house, new cars, big vacations. The system will expect the family that saved to pay more than the family that didn't.
It's getting worse. The formulas for college payments were based on late 60s/early 70s economic data, cost of living, demographics, etc. They have not been updated even though we are in a totally different economic condition than 1970. The middle class is being squeezed out by this system.
I don't know of a college kid that gets 8 hours sleep. I didn't, nor did my friends or my kids. I always considered working my first job a breeze compared to college.
Conversely, we can get screwed by that same system if we don't have any money. I have one daughter. I divorced her father when she was a kid because he never met a bad habit he didn't take on. Working regularly/not getting was NOT one of his habits. Marriage left me in debt, but at least divorced stopped the increase of it.
My ex rarely paid child support, but as time went on, he pulled himself together enough to obtain and maintain a decent job. Meanwhile, when my daughter was a teenager, I was suddenly in a position to be line for several successive promotions.
I robbed Peter to pay Paul as a single mother, and obviously, saving for college was never an option. However, when my daughter was 17 and it was time to fill out the FAFSA, I was making a decent salary and so was her father. We looked great on paper, so we were not eligible for any financial aid whatsoever even though we had no money to contribute.
I ended up taking out loans to pay for what my daughter's own federal student loans would not cover (her father took out a loan the first year, too.)
Fortunately, because I was making a decent salary, I had all my loans killed five years after she graduated with her Bachelors' degrees.
The typical estimate allots at least 1 hr. of study for every hour in class. Some estimate 2 hrs. At minimum in a schedule of 15 class hours/week (not counting science labs, if any) for 3 courses 5 days/week, that would be 15 hours of study. That estimate doesn't include extra hours for research and writing of a term project for at least one class per semester, so throw in another roughly 4-6 hrs. on weekends.
....
TexasLawyer is correct. The standard ratio is 3:1. Three hours outside class for every hour in class for a total of 4. Most professors assign work based on that expectation pretty much as he says below. I've never heard of anyone estimating a 1:1 ratio.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasLawyer2000
1 hour of study in addition to 1 hour of lecture, 1 hour of reading, and 1 hour of research.
It's an estimate, but you should plan on spending 4 hours per credit on these activities. So for 15 credits, that's 60 hours out of the 168 hour week. Again, not for just studying, but for all activities.
....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
Conversely, we can get screwed by that same system if we don't have any money. I have one daughter. I divorced her father when she was a kid because he never met a bad habit he didn't take on. Working regularly/not getting was NOT one of his habits. Marriage left me in debt, but at least divorced stopped the increase of it.
My ex rarely paid child support, but as time went on, he pulled himself together enough to obtain and maintain a decent job. Meanwhile, when my daughter was a teenager, I was suddenly in a position to be line for several successive promotions.
I robbed Peter to pay Paul as a single mother, and obviously, saving for college was never an option. However, when my daughter was 17 and it was time to fill out the FAFSA, I was making a decent salary and so was her father. We looked great on paper, so we were not eligible for any financial aid whatsoever even though we had no money to contribute.
I ended up taking out loans to pay for what my daughter's own federal student loans would not cover (her father took out a loan the first year, too.)
Fortunately, because I was making a decent salary, I had all my loans killed five years after she graduated with her Bachelors' degrees.
I'm sorry. But you are spot on with the FAFSA. What looks great on paper doesn't match reality. A few years ago while filling it out for my oldest, I saw somewhere that the formula is so outdated it essentially considers anyone with a combined income about around $50,000 to be upper class and able to afford most, if not all, full price. Perhaps in 1970. Afraid I don't have a source to verify; it's been a couple of years.
studying 40-60 hours a week in full time college is unrealistic and impossible if students have to work to make ends meet
I managed it. However I did have some jobs that allowed me to study some at work.
There are 168 hours in a week. If you work 40 hours a week, study 40 hours a week and spend 15 hours in class, you still have 10.4 hours a day for sleep and other things. If you are able to overlap work, study, class, sleep time, then you have even more. If you cannot find a job where you can study a little or sleep a little here and there, then find a different job. Even if you cannot find such a job, there is still plenty of time to do all you need to do. It is just a question of planning, scheduling and priorities.
40 hours a week is plenty for studying. As an undergrad I took as many as 21 credit hours in a semester and never had to study 40 hours a week. Even in Law school, I did not have to study that many hours on any consistent basis. Finals week is a different story.
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