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It seems to me that this is a serious problem, because it is thanks to small colleges that various social groups of people have access to education. And the closure of colleges will negatively affect the educational level of people.
I And the closure of colleges will negatively affect the educational level of people.
Are you hinting that college is about educating people in many ways and NOT just about getting jobs?
Who knew?
Do we really want a generally ignorant population who can only fix dirty teeth or toilets?
On the other hand, public high schools have been a massive failure in the US the past number of decades.
High School used to be good enough to be a terminal degree. Education on that level is now closer to what the elementary grades used to produce in the past. Kids are "graduating" unable to write, read with comprehension, do math, ignorant of geography, civics, history, and so on...
Basic liberal arts colleges are now trying to finish education that should have been accomplished in HS.
On an international scale, this is putting us behind other civilized nations.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,745 posts, read 58,102,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollytree
Are you hinting that college is about educating people in many ways and NOT just about getting jobs?
Who knew?
Do we really want a generally ignorant population who can only fix dirty teeth or toilets?
On the other hand, public high schools have been a massive failure in the US the past number of decades.
High School used to be good enough to be a terminal degree. Education on that level is now closer to what the elementary grades used to produce in the past. Kids are "graduating" unable to write, read with comprehension, do math, ignorant of geography, civics, history, and so on...
Basic liberal arts colleges are now trying to finish education that should have been accomplished in HS.
On an international scale, this is putting us behind other civilized nations.
You must be an employer, rather than an educator.
USA edu has greatly burdened employers and any similance of productivity. Our output is failing in edu, citizenship, and business. An educated and informed (rather than persuaded) electorate would be a great benefit. But that would require a nation of thinkers, rather than one conditioned by passivel entertainment.
Basic liberal arts colleges are now trying to finish education that should have been accomplished in HS.
Example: if you go for a degree in mathematics in Oxford or Cambridge in England, then you do not take any non-related courses. You take just mathematics and a few closely related science (usually physics) or economics courses that are heavy in math. You graduate in 2 1/2 to 3 years instead of the 4 to 6 years here in the states.
The OP has posted about this topic multiple times over the last several months. Does anyone have a list of closed and merged colleges over the last several years?
I have often wondered about the mid level mid sized public universities building new $100 - $200 million buildings year after year (big ones do it too, but I wonder less about them, they get lots of big donors, still it does not make a lot of sense). Often they are tearing down serviceable buildings that still work fine, just look old. They say they have to build the fancy new buildings to stay competitive or they won't get any students.
However the college my daughter is at does not do that (maybe they should have). I do know they took a big financial hit from CoVID because they had a lot of foreign students who pay a lot more but who are now not able to attend at all.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,745 posts, read 58,102,528 times
Reputation: 46232
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_
The OP has posted about this topic multiple times over the last several months. Does anyone have a list of closed and merged colleges over the last several years?
Here's 5 within our very small USA edu sector, this represents about 20% of local offerings. But was preceded by a significant shake-out of "for profit" institutions about 5 yrs ago.
This website should have additional comprehensive data for the rest of USA, for those not paying-per-byte for dial-up speed internet. The USA is SO Advanced! I miss my international job assignments to 3rd world countries so I can catch up on email.
Actually failures for USA edu is not even in it's infancy. Give it 10 yrs (momentum / pre-pay can sustain it for at least another 5-7 yrs). There are so many better options, much better, much higher value, much more mature with significant proven results.
I have often wondered about the mid level mid sized public universities building new $100 - $200 million buildings year after year (big ones do it too, but I wonder less about them, they get lots of big donors, still it does not make a lot of sense). Often they are tearing down serviceable buildings that still work fine, just look old. They say they have to build the fancy new buildings to stay competitive or they won't get any students.
However the college my daughter is at does not do that (maybe they should have). I do know they took a big financial hit from CoVID because they had a lot of foreign students who pay a lot more but who are now not able to attend at all.
Couple of interesting things that go into the decision to build new vs refurb old. For some of those building it is often cheaper to build new than to refurb. A lot of buildings even into the 70s employed a lot of asbestos in the construction. Once you start mitigating asbestos the cost to remodel goes way up. Also a lot of those buildings don't have enough power to meet modern usage. My oldest actually lived in the same dorm I did. When it was built it only had a couple of electric outlets. Which were plenty since all we had back then might be a lamp, an electric typewriter, and maybe a record player/radio. In contrast they had a microfridge, coffee maker, and a computer, monitor or two, and printer.
Add to that the student population more than doubled which drove a lot of new dorm, classroom, and lab space.
I've hesitated responding, trying to find a politically correct way of answering, but there isn't one. There are a couple of truths that aren't pretty, but I think drive much of the issues being discussion. These aren't in any order, but stream of conscious in putting them down.
A. Starting in the 60s the school systems began pushing the everyone must go to college mantra. I've mentioned before how we were issued book covers that talked about the importance of college and listed the typical incomes and lifetime earnings of a dropout, high school graduate, and college graduate. At the time, trade school was considered as high school graduate. This mantra grew throughout the years so more and more students were pushed toward college that simply didn't belong there. Their skills and talents would have been better met in a trade school or vo-tech situation. I know there are those on CD that don't like me saying this and I usually catch heck for it, but it's the truth. This increased demand drove the need for colleges to expand significantly. The college I attended has more than doubled the number of students. And that expansion costs -- buildings for classrooms and labs, dorms, professors, equipment (esp computer and IT services that didn't exist when we went). It was pushed in this state's K-12 education plan (current governor has changed it to include Vo-Tech as a desirable outcome once again, but for years it was treated as poor relative by the school systems).
At the same time, many states were cutting, or limiting, state funding for those same university systems that were growing tremendously. Which brings up point B.
B. Whichever side of the political fence one is on, there have been quite a few academics who have used (or some would say, misused) their position and tenure in, shall we say, radical ways. The fact that they are a small percentage of the total faculty population is overcome by the media frenzy they've created. To put it in very simple terms, those who depend heavily on taxpayer funds for their jobs would do well not to P---- off 50% of the population that pays their salary. Legislatures react to a PO'd taxpayer base. And part of the reaction has been to limit state funds. Whether one agrees or disagrees, this is reality.
C. Somewhat related to both A & B above has been the growth of questionable degree programs. Programs that might fit someone's self actualization, but don't lead to marketable skills for the most part. These cost money and produce poor outcomes. Again something that taxpayers and legislatures don't like.
D. Quality. A fallout of A & B has been a somewhat decrease in quality of the average product. While the top students are still the top, too many students that really shouldn't have been in college have brought the average down. Funding decreases have also impacted education quality in an era when high tech understanding is essential. Even for non STEM people.
These kind of results don't sit well with a population that feels ignored by an "over-educated elite" who pressure legislatures to cut funding as a means of limiting the number of "over-educated elite" out there. Again, one doesn't have to agree with them to recognize it's reality.
Sorry to hear about your daughter but yes, this college crisis has been discussed in the news.
Declining number of college applicants coupled with a "Race to the Bottom" by colleges offering higher and higher tuition discounts to lower costs for applicants in an attempt to entice them to enroll. The small liberal arts colleges are at or beyond the point of no return in regards to their ability to survive.
We will see lots of consolidations and closures of small/smaller schools in the very near future..
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