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Say what you mean and mean what you say. Or in this case, write.
I wouldn't buy a house that was way over my means. I wouldn't buy a house unless I knew I could afford to pay the monthly mortgage payment and taxes at the end of the year, but I would buy a house without prior savings.
Sound advice, but not always practical or necessary. If a family had enough disposable income to cover four years of living expenses-just in case-then chances are high that they would not need the benefit of receiving a PharmD in the first place.
Who suggested that they need savings equal to 4 years of expenses? That would be ridiculous, what I am suggesting is very reasonable. Right now they have NO SAVINGS. That's not a sound financial state even if they aren't going back to school. EVERYONE should have an emergency fund because the unexpected does happen.
I can't believe you are still arguing AGAINST saving a little money and planning to have some income so they don't have to live entirely off loans.
My point is...Saving money in advance of taking such a risk is sound advice. Having a plan to cover his lost income while he is in school instead of relying solely on loans is sound advice.
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Originally Posted by NCyank
Who suggested that they need savings equal to 4 years of expenses?
Maybe I am reading too much into the bolded sentence?
A PharmD is a professional degree that takes four years to complete.
I agree that a plan should be in place prior to entering school. I also agree that, ideally, having some money saved prior is a good idea. The only thing that we seem to disagree over is that I do not think that it is a bad idea to go for a professional-level degree in this situation.
Life is full of twists and turns and nobody knows what lies around the next corner. Four years from now the OPs husband can still be unemployed or working in a menial, low-paying job.
Or the OPs husband could have the professional degree that still has a solid future of employment despite the current downturn in the economy.
From my perspective, going to school now, despite any current or future financial hardships, is sound advice for planning towards the future.
Maybe I am reading too much into the bolded sentence?
A PharmD is a professional degree that takes four years to complete.
I agree that a plan should be in place prior to entering school. I also agree that, ideally, having some money saved prior is a good idea. The only thing that we seem to disagree over is that I do not think that it is a bad idea to go for a professional-level degree in this situation.
Life is full of twists and turns and nobody knows what lies around the next corner. Four years from now the OPs husband can still be unemployed or working in a menial, low-paying job.
Or the OPs husband could have the professional degree that still has a solid future of employment despite the current downturn in the economy.
From my perspective, going to school now, despite any current or future financial hardships, is sound advice for planning towards the future.
First of all, you spend too much time reading into things...try actually reading instead. I said they should have some savings, not 4 years worth. I said they should have some income and not live entirely on student loans. Why do you disagree with that?
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despite any current or future financial hardships, , is sound advice for planning towards the future.
Second, this is BAD advice. It could be a good thing for their future or it could be the worst mistake they ever made. Student loans aren't bankrupt-able, they don't go away if you have hardships later on. IF they end up in a situation where they need cash now then they are forced to rely on CC's and loans etc. Does the prospective student have life insurance, short and long term disability insurance, health insurance? Most people who don't bother to save for an emergency or retirement forgo other sorts of financial protections as well. What if he becomes disabled or unable to finish the degree for some reason, if someone in the family becomes ill or injured and they end up thousands of dollars of medical expenses piled on top of tens of thousands of dollars of student loans? Maybe you will be there to bail them out...given you think it's all worth the risk?
Getting the degree isn't a bad idea, never said it was. I'm all for people working to improve their situation however it's foolish to say it's worth any risk. It's smart to LESSEN THE RISK by having savings, insurance, working to maintain income to cover basic expenses, using the loans for as little as possible, etc. You are right, you never know what twists and turns life will take so it's best to take precautions when you can and not set yourself up with more risk than you can bear. Again, what exactly do you disagree with here?
Excellent points, my husband wants to go for his PharmD, to become a pharmacist which starts betwwen 80k and 90k and job market is supposed to be good. Thats why we think its a good move, because it has good potential for all the time and money it will cost. It will significantly increase our income, yes. He is willing to work while attending, but the program is pretty rigorous and the last year is all interning. Just wondering about some couples who seem to swing the school thing without having savings etc and do it on loans and/or grants. Am trying to find out more about that. As for whether its a good idea or not, after much research and deliberation, we think its a wise move. We'll see! Thank you both!
Is he in a retail pharmacy now? Do they provide tuition reimbursement?
I am considering doing this but the difference for us is my husband is the primary wage-earner and I will be looking at adding after-school care expenses and full-day preschool-age care expenses instead of losing his income.
If at all possible for you guys, I would make sure he applies to the less expensive schools in less expensive areas even if it means a move.
He could also look at the 3-yr programs - they are accelerated, which would make the 3 years very intense, and probably preclude working if he wants to succeed and also see his family at all, but it would be done a year earlier than the traditional programs.
Pharmacy is becoming popular because of the retail salaries so while it is still in demand, I have heard that hand-picking a job is not as common. Still, he should be able to find work once he graduates.
The military services have tuition support/payback programs in exchange for a time commitment working as a Pharmacist - I think your husband is still young enough. Not sure if this is something you guys would have interest in or not.
My husband is 35 and wants to go back to school for a masters program that is full time, and cannot be done part time or online. I am wondering how adults afford to do this? We are a family of 3 with 10 year old. I may or may not be able to work full time when he goes back to school, I may only be able to provide a part time income. We have no fall backs like 401k, savings, credit cards, equity lines etc. I know he could get a stafford loan for tuition, but what about living expenses? I have heard a little about grants and scholarships, but can these be applied to living or just tuition? I have heard of families in which one or both of the adults went back full time and scraped by between what was left over from their loans and grants. Scraping by would be fine, but how do you know if youre going to have extra left over from loans or grants until you actually start school? Is it a chance you just go for and then see what happens? i have researched this online and just come up with stuff like use your savings, use your equity line, etc. Anyone have any experience or thoughts? Much appreciated and thank you!
Sorry but this may sound ugly. The fact is that decision were made to have children before the education needed. To me the children come first and to sacrifice their well being in any form is not fair to them. If higher education is wanted now, then it must be done to not sacrifice family. What I mean is that if instead of getting that degree takes 6 years instead of 2 with a lot of family sacrifice is not my way of thinking. I have my masters but I had the Army education program assistance but I made sure not to sacrifice the family time with my wife and the children.
I am sure many people have other views but to me making sure I did not miss our children school shows and teacher conferences, etc was worth sacrificing my educational goals. Education still is a goal we can reach at any age but you can never get back precious moment in your chidren's lives as they are growing. I am not from the modern school that if you are not happy (self centered) yourself your children will not be because you are not working on your dreams and goals.
There are many couples that do get higher while raising a family. The point is that many of them do not go to the extent of having to be full time. As much as many want to believe it, you cannot be full time father or mother, full time employee, full time student, full time husband and wife. Something will have to give unless you are a millionaire and it sounds you are not.
So the question is how you are going to prioritize you life when you have to think about wife and husband time together, time with children, time for school, time for homework and reasearch, time for work, etc. What will be at the top of your list?
One last point. People say they want to go to school to have a better income for the family and their future. It is a great goal but if that was not considered before getting married and having children, there has to be some honest self instrospection and see it that is the real main reason. I love education but because circumstances in life and personal choices when I got married I could not even say I was a high school drop out because I never attended a high school to drop out from. I only got elementary education from Mexico. I now have a master degree but it took me a long time to achieve that at not great sacrfice to my family, they came first ahead of my education goals.
As an adult, I go to school full time. I am using student loans to pay for school, I work a day job, and attend classes at night. It is tough, but it can be done.
Wow! Lots of good points, lots of opinions!! Here are my thoughts on some of what youve said (as I cant rermember every post as I type this!). As for the overriding quesiton of whether or not it is a good or bad idea to go back to school into a full time and demanding program now with no savings, no insurance, no "nothing" - I think that can be argued a million ways, but I think the bottom line is this: if we are just scraping by now on crappy jobs and have been for years, what is the difference if we continue to scrape by and live dangerously with no savings but someone is in school making those years count? Thats how we are looking it. Neither of us have good jobs, although we have college degrees we are not entrepreneurial, we dont own our own business, we dont own anything, we are at the bottom of the bottom pretty much. So, the next 4 years are going to pass anyway, why not let them pass with one of us doing something to change this situaiton? I hate living with no savings etc, but that is our own fault to some degree and whether we have no savings just working crapy jobs or have no savings in a full time PharmD program, I see little to no difference but one of those scenarios is going to pan out much differently than the other. also, we have a 10 year with disabilities so its not like we can really both ever work full time and depend on child care to advance ourselves because his needs are too complex - he really is a full time job.
As for neglect of him or the family, I dont foresee that. Currently my husband is taking some science classes and he is gone 3 nights a week and studying almost all spare time, but he still spends all his time with my son, we still do things every weekend as a family, i am fine with his absence and I am well versed in the ways of sacrifice so I dont mind never seeing him or picking up slack. To me you have to climb that mountain one way or another - change is not easy, getting out of a rut is going to be hard, we are ready to deal with that, we accept that. Of courser having some monety in the bank would be better, but we dont have that now, so why not just go for it? I know student loans are not gifts and that they must be repaid, but in our situation we think this is a risk worth taking. Its not like he is choosing some field that is questionable or gives little return for the investment -pharmacy is a good field to go into now with salaries in the 80s to 90s. That seems worth it to me.
To someone to mentioned me, the spouse getting a job to support us so that we are not broke and without any cash, first of all I have to ask how many jobs out there exist where I could support us? I dont have a good resume, I have a B.A. which to me is virutally worthless, Im not a computer programmer or a nurse or something that brings in a solid enough paycheck that a family could live on. If I were to get a full time job - which I will if I can depending on the situaiton with my son and what kind of school and after school program I can find for him - it would likely be some social work job or secretary etc that will not pay more than say $15 an hour, and thats highballing it! That would be great if I can land something like that and my husband can do the school and my son has somewhere safe and nurturing to be 9 hours a day, but it still is not the financial solution, we would still needs loans.
And to MEKIA02-THANK YOU!!!!!!!! That info is EXACTLY what I was asking when I first posted! I am excited to look into what youve told me and we are going to talk to the financial aid dept. at the prospective school this week. It is these details from someone doing it that I was asking for, although everyone's advice and opinions are helpful in expanding my reality of the situation and helping us be grounded. Thank you very much!
I said they should have some savings, not 4 years worth. I said they should have some income and not live entirely on student loans. Why do you disagree with that?
You did not say that they should have some savings, but yet alluded to having enough saved up to cover rent, bills, etc.
A PharmD program is four years, so by what you suggested it can logically be concluded that you are saying that they save up enough money for four years.
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Originally Posted by NCyank
Getting the degree isn't a bad idea, never said it was. I'm all for people working to improve their situation however it's foolish to say it's worth any risk. It's smart to LESSEN THE RISK by having savings, insurance, working to maintain income to cover basic expenses, using the loans for as little as possible, etc. You are right, you never know what twists and turns life will take so it's best to take precautions when you can and not set yourself up with more risk than you can bear. Again, what exactly do you disagree with here?
The OP is not asking to be dressed down by your own opinion, and judging by the OPs latest post, she seems to have a good grasp on the situation that they face. Your suggestions are good in a best-if manner. The OP has stated that they do not have the savings, that they are looking for ways to make it work. Telling them that they should, to some respect, have SOME money saved up, etc., prior, and that by attempting to go ahead with this plan without any sort of savings is not a sound idea, is simply condescending.
You did not say that they should have some savings, but yet alluded to having enough saved up to cover rent, bills, etc.
A PharmD program is four years, so by what you suggested it can logically be concluded that you are saying that they save up enough money for four years.
Really??
You conclusions are anything but logical. Again, try READING my posts as you suck at reading into the meaning and drawing your own conclusions. I said very clearly what I meant...
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sock away some money
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some cash reserves
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have some money in the bank
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have some cash for an emergency fund
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saving a little money
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have some income so they don't have to live entirely off loans
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have some savings
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have some income and not live entirely on student loans
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work to maintain income to cover basic expenses
Now....please show where you think I said they need to save 4 years of expenses? You either can't read or you are dense. I recommend having SOME savings to cover any emergency that might come up and SOME income so they don't have to live entirely on loans. Is that spelled out simple enough for you to understand?!?!
Last edited by NCyank; 02-09-2010 at 12:04 PM..
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I said they should have some savings, not 4 years worth. I said they should have some income and not live entirely on student loans. Why do you disagree with that?
Thank you both!
