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I'm a senior in college. I have completed all required classes with the exception of my major classes. I took three Finance courses this semester and dropped two of them because I simply wasn't enjoying the classes. Why trouble myself with such a difficult degree when every person I know working in an upper level finance position has a degree in psychology or liberal arts?
I have decided that, due to my senoritis and faltering study ethic, to switch my degree to whatever is the easiest to achieve in the College of Business. Do you guys have any suggestions on what degree to pursue? Are there any business degrees that are known for being easier to achieve than others?
With a lazy attitude like that, you will never ever work in a lucrative position in the finance industry.
With a lazy attitude like that, you will never ever work in a lucrative position in the finance industry.
So, to you, not being stressed out = Being lazy. I disagree. I consider it to be very important to always be as happy as you can and to never put unnecessary stress on your shoulders. I would be very content in a not so lucrative position in the finance field. As long as I can pay my rent/mortgage, buy food, gym membership (a must) and have money for entertainment, I would be very happy.
I suppose what makes you happy is throwing ridiculous insults at people who ask for advice. Perhaps I am lazy, but you could definitely use some help with your people skills. ; )
I'm a senior in college. I have completed all required classes with the exception of my major classes. I took three Finance courses this semester and dropped two of them because I simply wasn't enjoying the classes. Why trouble myself with such a difficult degree when every person I know working in an upper level finance position has a degree in psychology or liberal arts?
I have decided that, due to my senoritis and faltering study ethic, to switch my degree to whatever is the easiest to achieve in the College of Business. Do you guys have any suggestions on what degree to pursue? Are there any business degrees that are known for being easier to achieve than others?
Lol...that's easy: Marketing. I did Finance myself.
It all depends on what you want, right? If you aspire to be a senior associate at a hedge fund earning several hundred thousand a year before bonus, or even a senior financial analyst in a corporation earning just right around a hundred thousand a year before bonus, then you're going to need lots of finance/accounting knowledge in your tool kit and the easy way out will not serve you well. If you want to do something simpler with your life and will be happy to earn a fraction of those amounts, then you'll be fine taking the path of least resistance.
So, to you, not being stressed out = Being lazy. I disagree. I consider it to be very important to always be as happy as you can and to never put unnecessary stress on your shoulders. I would be very content in a not so lucrative position in the finance field. As long as I can pay my rent/mortgage, buy food, gym membership (a must) and have money for entertainment, I would be very happy.
I suppose what makes you happy is throwing ridiculous insults at people who ask for advice. Perhaps I am lazy, but you could definitely use some help with your people skills. ; )
If that's fine with you, then ok. Many of these "not so lucrative" positions in the finance industry have nothing to do with finance, and are tedious and mind-numbing. For example, trade processing. You could hire a kid out of high school to do the same work. Public school teachers could make the same amount (or even more) and at least their work is interesting. You'll say "that's not so bad", but 1+ year into it, you'll start to question why you spent 100K+ to college in the first place if your 12 year old cousin could do your job.
The problem with not shooting for a lucrative position in finance is that, as you age (30s, 40s, etc), you'll be surrounded by 20-something year olds who make 2x, 3x, 4x, maybe 5-10x+ more than you and you might wonder: "what the hell did I do with my life". You wonder where the term "mid-life crisis" comes from? (As a disclaimer, I am not speaking from experience, but observation - I'm 23 and make more than both my parents combined). This isn't really something you'll experience in teaching, for example, because compensation is based on seniority. And you may very well be crapped on by these 20-something year olds, because they are bringing in revenue and you are not. And you'll just have to bear it with a smile, because their job is much more secure than yours. Even at the worst of the recession, bankers and traders were still making top dollar, and those "not so lucrative" positions were being cut left and right. It is much worse when you are older and in one of those positions, because your company could hire a kid from college who will replace you and have less of an impact on the company's bottom line.
Another problem is that these "not so lucrative" positions are not unionized. It is very easy for a bank to tell them "no raises for you this year", while the bankers and traders are making 7, 8 figures. And what are you going to do about it? Quit? They'll easily hire someone else to replace you. Many times, the raises that the banks will give to you don't even cover inflation and cost-of living. So how are you going to save for retirement, when you are making ~50K a year (~30-40K a year outside of NYC) for the next 10 years and the price of everything you buy (rent, food, etc) may very well double? Even teachers, firefighters, cops have raises that far exceed cost of living adjustments, because their unions have power. The fed is printing money left and right, you don't think this will catch up to us in terms of inflation?
It is very easy to get caught up in all of this "keeping up with the joneses" when the joneses are your younger co-workers, when you work in a culture of money for 40+ hours a week, as opposed to a field like teaching. Especially in a finance hub like NYC, where cash is king and bankers/traders are highly revered.
If that is ok with you, then fine. Obviously you are not thinking long long term because you are still in school, but you must.
Last edited by NYCAnalyst; 02-27-2010 at 11:09 AM..
You wonder where the term "mid-life crisis" comes from?
It's funny you pose that rhetorical question. I always thought that one of perspective on where it comes from is the professional worker who has worked 90-100 hour weeks to climb up the ladder in some prestigious Wall Street firm and wakes up one day to find that his life is half over and work has dominated his entire existence. Friends, family, wife, kids, and other relationships have gone by the wayside; stress has taken a toll on his health; and that nice car, penthouse apartment, and the $1,500 leather shoes don't make him all that happy and fill his life with the meaning he yearns for in the fleeting good years he has left.
It's funny you pose that rhetorical question. I always thought that one of perspective on where it comes from is the professional worker who has worked 90-100 hour weeks to climb up the ladder in some prestigious Wall Street firm and wakes up one day to find that his life is half over and work has dominated his entire existence. Friends, family, wife, kids, and other relationships have gone by the wayside; stress has taken a toll on his health; and that nice car, penthouse apartment, and the $1,500 leather shoes don't make him all that happy and fill his life with the meaning he yearns for in the fleeting good years he has left.
Two sides to every coin, right?
Traders on Wall Street work 60 hours a week. You can't make money when the markets are closed, and you always get weekends off (since the market is closed). Obviously as you move up, hours decrease, since most of the grunt work after the market closes (running P&L, etc) is being done by the analysts. Andrew Hall earned $100 Million last year trading commodities for Citigroup.
The career of an Investment Banker is different. Analysts will work 100+ hour weeks for 2 years, and then they're off to B-School for 2 more years. By the time they get out of B-School and go back to I-Banking (if they choose to go back), they'll be Associates, working 80-100 hour weeks, and then get promoted after 3-5 years to VP. Weekends free up, all-nighters disappear, and they are the ones telling the Associates and Analysts to stay late on Friday nights. Do the math, and they'll be around 30-31 by the time they get promoted to VP. After about 4-5 years, they'll be promoted again to MD, where they (literally) get paid millions to play golf, schmooze, and make deals with clients. Or they could exit to the buy-side, or exit to the C-Suite (CEO, CFO, etc) of a Fortune 500 company. Of course, hours would be lower.
Of course, those on the Buy-Side (PE/VC) work 45-50 hour weeks and easily make $200K+ at the associate level. There are no clients to entertain (you are the client), so when you get your work done you go home.
Maybe it would help if you actually learned something about the industry instead of drawing conclusions of what you see on TV/movies. Nobody over 35 is really working 90-100 hour weeks on Wall Street.
Traders on Wall Street work 60 hours a week. You can't make money when the markets are closed, and you always get weekends off (since the market is closed). Obviously as you move up, hours decrease, since most of the grunt work after the market closes (running P&L, etc) is being done by the analysts. Andrew Hall earned $100 Million last year trading commodities for Citigroup.
The career of an Investment Banker is different. Analysts will work 100+ hour weeks for 2 years, and then they're off to B-School for 2 more years. By the time they get out of B-School and go back to I-Banking (if they choose to go back), they'll be Associates, working 80-100 hour weeks, and then get promoted after 3-5 years to VP. Weekends free up, all-nighters disappear, and they are the ones telling the Associates and Analysts to stay late on Friday nights. Do the math, and they'll be around 30-31 by the time they get promoted to VP. After about 4-5 years, they'll be promoted again to MD, where they (literally) get paid millions to play golf, schmooze, and make deals with clients. Or they could exit to the buy-side, or exit to the C-Suite (CEO, CFO, etc) of a Fortune 500 company. Of course, hours would be lower.
Of course, those on the Buy-Side (PE/VC) work 45-50 hour weeks and easily make $200K+ at the associate level. There are no clients to entertain (you are the client), so when you get your work done you go home.
Maybe it would help if you actually learned something about the industry instead of drawing conclusions of what you see on TV/movies. Nobody over 35 is really working 90-100 hour weeks on Wall Street.
Ok, thanks for the condescending tip. You know, whenever I'm itching to read yet another ego-driven post about how Wall Street/I-Banking is categorically and unreservedly the best thing since sliced bread under all circumstances and how everyone/everything else is simply not worthy, I just look for your name on here.
Guess what? Not everyone aspires to be an NYCAnalyst, and there's nothing wrong with that. If it works for you, great. If something else works for someone else - even if it pays less money and doesn't have anything to do with Wall Street (gasp!) - then that's great, too.
Why trouble myself with such a difficult degree when every person I know working in an upper level finance position has a degree in psychology or liberal arts?
Because they are not in an upper level finance position, but perhaps in some other capacity. CFO's are accountants (perhaps with a CPA); those who understand finance & economics; or financial whizzes.
Ok, thanks for the condescending tip. You know, whenever I'm itching to read yet another ego-driven post about how Wall Street/I-Banking is categorically and unreservedly the best thing since sliced bread under all circumstances and how everyone/everything else is simply not worthy, I just look for your name on here.
Guess what? Not everyone aspires to be an NYCAnalyst, and there's nothing wrong with that. If it works for you, great. If something else works for someone else - even if it pays less money and doesn't have anything to do with Wall Street (gasp!) - then that's great, too.
Like I said, two sides to every coin...
No, the point was, if you want to work 40 hours a week and life a comfortable life, it's better to get into the public sector, since those jobs are unionized, have more security, and compensation is based on senority. And you get a pension after 20 years of employment! Want to retire at 45? Their work is more interesting and less monotonous than many of the 40 hour workweeks in the private sector. If you want to do something interesting, there probably is going to be some amount of stress involved (since you are using your brain), and you will probably work 50+ hours a week, if it is truly interesting enough to have you come in early and/or stay late. Of course, you'll have to deal with middle class people in the private sector ridiculing you if you work in the public sector because you are "sucking on the taxpayer's teat", but who cares - just like people on "Main St." whine about the banks, they whine about the unions but nothing ever gets done. Bonuses for 2009 were sky-high and firefighters, policemen, teachers, etc still got raises, as stated in their contract.
Last edited by NYCAnalyst; 02-28-2010 at 09:25 AM..
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