is the SE area really so bad? (Denver, Colorado Springs: for sale, apartment complex)

[moralhazard]

My partner and I have lived in the Springs for many years now; I've been here since my family moved here in 2001, she's been here since '98, excluding a few years spent in Denver in the mid 2000's. I grew up over by Peterson and Palmer Park, and have since rented on Fontmore, Academy and I-25, Nevada and Garden of the Gods/Austin Bluffs, and now Briargate. So I don't have a lot of experience with the south side.

We're now looking to stop renting and buy our first home, since the market seems to be in a good spot for buyers. The max we can afford is $185k, but I don't want to put us in the situation where we are spending almost all of our monthly income on a mortgage. I'd rather get something between $135-150k. We've found a lot of really great looking houses in the southeast part of town (near S Circle Dr and Airport Rd or Fountain Blvd); complete remodels, likely foreclosed homes that have been "flipped."

They're all within our price range and seem like wonderful starter homes, but whenever I mention to friend or coworkers that we've looked at houses in that area they all look horrified. I'm aware that this is considered the "ghetto" of Colorado Springs, and a high-crime area, but I just don't buy it. Looking at crime statistics, there's a few incidents a month but nothing that seems really major. Am I being naive, or missing something? There are an awful lot of registered sex offenders, but with no children currently or planned we're not super concerned about that. We're also not terribly concerned with school district.

Will my car be safe parked out on the driveway? Are we at higher risk for a break-in/home robbery, will we be mugged while out walking our dog, possibly in the dark/early morning? Driving through those neighborhoods, I don't feel like they're "unsafe." A little run-down or white-trashy in places, yeah, but nothing that seems dangerous.

Colorado Springs is one of the lowest-crime cities in the country, so is living in one of the highest-crime neighborhoods here really so bad? If so, any suggestions on where else we could get a decent house for $135-150k? In any other area, that price range only gets a trash house that has obviously been neglected (or at least that's what we've seen so far).

[Mike from back east]

Total renovation may mean a house was trashed by former occupants, or that it was a meth house. Many renovations are poorly done, so be sure to get an inspector who has a lot of experience.

Check the city listing of meth lab seizures.

There's a lot to learn about buying homes. Many of us suggest you get a Buyer's Broker, who looks out for you, and not the seller. Interview several of them.

I'd avoid the S.E. area.

Fountain is very nice, as is the Rockrimmon area.

Use ppar.com or realtor.com or zillow.com to look at what's for sale in areas of your interest.

Some tips, others can add to this as needed.
- Don't rush.
- Corner lots can be a pain, even if fenced, and you get street noise on two sides, more fencing to buy, not very private.
- Get a garage if at all possible.
- Try not to buy on a main street or a busy street, the noise will be constant.
- Don't live too near to a school, you'd be amazed at the litter, the noise, lack of privacy and they'll park all along your street.
- Trees can be pretty, can add shade, but if they're too big or too close to the house they can cost you a lot of time and money.
- Take a real careful look at nearby homes, day and night, beware of trashy looking homes, or tons of parked cars.

[otowi]

To be completely honest, I don't think living there is a problem for 99% of the folks there. I wouldn't particularly want my kids in the D2 school system, but other than that, I myself would live in that area and not have concerns about it, although you ought to consider house resale value, which might be an issue in a declining neighborhood. I would also look a little more closely if you're talking an apartment complex - drive around the area at different times of day because things can vary block by block in any neighborhood.

No, I don't think your car will be unsafe in the driveway, I don't think you're at much higher risk for break-in or robbery than anywhere else in town, I don't think you're more likely to be mugged, etc. I do think maybe there is a little more gang activity and a little more drug activity in certain parts of that neighborhood and that stuff makes big splashes in the newspapers - so as I said, just drive around and pick out a good block.

I think the area around Soaring Eagles is nice, the areas west of Tinseltown and Target are nice and there are plenty of perfectly nice areas all over - even near the Citadel, even near Airport, etc. People who react freakishly about the area haven't lived there and most of them probably didn't grow up around here, either, they've just "heard" the rep. As someone who grew up in a neighborhood with a rep, we honestly resented being stereotyped as teenagers when we went to away sports games, etc. Our schools and neighborhoods as far as we were concerned were just as nice and good as anywhere else - we just had more 'color' in our school and neighborhood, which freaks some folks out.

You might get as much for your money in Widefield or Fountain, which are quite similar in many respects but do have less rep and less concerns around crime.

[lalahartma]

Originally Posted by moralhazard

My partner and I have lived in the Springs for many years now; I've been here since my family moved here in 2001, she's been here since '98, excluding a few years spent in Denver in the mid 2000's. I grew up over by Peterson and Palmer Park, and have since rented on Fontmore, Academy and I-25, Nevada and Garden of the Gods/Austin Bluffs, and now Briargate. So I don't have a lot of experience with the south side.

We're now looking to stop renting and buy our first home, since the market seems to be in a good spot for buyers. The max we can afford is $185k, but I don't want to put us in the situation where we are spending almost all of our monthly income on a mortgage. I'd rather get something between $135-150k. We've found a lot of really great looking houses in the southeast part of town (near S Circle Dr and Airport Rd or Fountain Blvd); complete remodels, likely foreclosed homes that have been "flipped."

They're all within our price range and seem like wonderful starter homes, but whenever I mention to friend or coworkers that we've looked at houses in that area they all look horrified. I'm aware that this is considered the "ghetto" of Colorado Springs, and a high-crime area, but I just don't buy it. Looking at crime statistics, there's a few incidents a month but nothing that seems really major. Am I being naive, or missing something? There are an awful lot of registered sex offenders, but with no children currently or planned we're not super concerned about that. We're also not terribly concerned with school district.

Will my car be safe parked out on the driveway? Are we at higher risk for a break-in/home robbery, will we be mugged while out walking our dog, possibly in the dark/early morning? Driving through those neighborhoods, I don't feel like they're "unsafe." A little run-down or white-trashy in places, yeah, but nothing that seems dangerous.

Colorado Springs is one of the lowest-crime cities in the country, so is living in one of the highest-crime neighborhoods here really so bad? If so, any suggestions on where else we could get a decent house for $135-150k? In any other area, that price range only gets a trash house that has obviously been neglected (or at least that's what we've seen so far).

For that amount of money , you can get a nice smaller house in the 'Central' area.

[hollyt00]

I feel a lot of the reaction is from comparing one area to another- compared to some parts of Briargate, it sure is more crime ridden. Compare southeastern Colorado Springs to central Denver, and I think you'll get a different reaction.

Also with very renovated houses, it is highly possible that it's a lipstick job, so make sure you really check the houses to see that it's structurally sound!

I personally would avoid D2 schools not because of the student body, but because of the emphasis on testing- the pay for performance plans stress the young ones out because they know their teachers' jobs depend on the test scores and some of the ones who really care get really stressed- more than they should, imo- about the tests.

[moralhazard]

Thank you all for your helpful responses. I have been checking all of the addresses against the meth lab list and so far none of them have come up. I believe they've been totally remodeled because they were trashed/not taken care of by the previous owners who ended up foreclosing. I will definitely pay for a thorough inspection before closing to make sure the remodel isn't just cosmetic.

Mike- I appreciate the tips and will keep those in mind. I never really thought about corner lots and fencing.

I do like the Rockrimmon area, but I don't believe I can afford a home there. Fountain is nice but I'm worried about the water quality compared to that of Colorado Springs Utilities.

I'm using a realtor who's a buyer's agent, she's helped a few of my friends buy their first time homes and has been really helpful, she just can't ethically comment on whether or not a neighborhood is "safe."

otowi- I appreciate your perspective, and the neighborhood recommendations. I agree that there are good and bad sections of every neighborhood; the street I'm living on in Briargate for example has a few rundown or neglected-looking houses, and a couple foreclosures, but it doesn't have the same reputation at all. And hey, wasn't there a huge heroine problem in one of the nice D12 schools a few years ago? I just can't help but feel uneasy when there always seems to be talk of robberies or violence off of Fountain and Chelton. I'm looking more at Fountain and Circle or Airport and Circle, but it's still unnerving. I think maybe driving around that area a few more times at different times of day would be very helpful.

lalahartma- I've been including the central area in my search, but so far haven't really found anything in my price range that seems "nice." Also, "central" is sort of hard to define; for example, all of the properties I've looked at that are around the Fountain/Circle or Airport/Circle area are listed as "central," though I would call that "southeast."

and hollyt00- That is exactly my thinking. My partner lived in Denver a few blocks from Colfax (I believe that's considered a rougher part of Denver) and, while she wouldn't do it again, she didn't believe it was all that terrible. And anywhere in the Springs is still definitely a step up.

And I plan to limit my interaction with whatever school district we end up in, since we have no children or plans for children for quite a few years. But I agree that stressed teenagers can be an issue, and like Mike mentioned they can leave quite a bit of litter. I went to Sand Creek, and the neighborhood around it seemed like it was constantly teeming with teens and trash. And I suppose litter would be the best consequence of a bunch of stressed-out, bored teenagers :|

We will keep looking, I think I'd much prefer the west side of town just for access to trails and I like the general area, but it comes down to affordability so I don't think I want to rule out the SE area of town altogether either.

[hollyt00]

I read on here a very good point someone brought up- there's more people per square mile or something in the south parts because of the higher numbers of apartments, so there will logically be more crime in some areas simply because of the higher numbers of people.

When I taught in District 2, I found a good amount (as much as any other school district) of parents were actively engaged in their child's behavior, grades, everything- sure, the whole south part of CS isn't necessarily the bees' knees, but it's just as full as good, hardworking people as other areas in town. Where I work (see paragraph below) I would not live because I hear so much about car vandalism and break ins in so many houses on the eastern side of the Springs.

I teach at Sand Creek! From my limited knowledge (I've been there only three years) things have "cleaned up" a bit, there was an area once known as a smoker's corner by some houses that no longer exists, for example. You may find it interesting that the big open space directly across Pony Tracks from SCHS may turn into a convienience store and gas station. Residents are angry, understandably.

[hollyt00]

still lots of bored, stressed teens though!!!

[Carrera32]

moralhazard - check out the Patty Jewett neighborhood. Roughly the area around the Patty Jewett golf course and directly east of the Old North End. You may be pushing your budget a bit, but I think you'll find some properties that meet your needs. PJ is an older downtown neighborhood with lots of bungalows and mid-century homes. Definitely not the SE Fountain/Circle, Airport/Circle area.

[GreenScoutII]

Originally Posted by Carrera32

moralhazard - check out the Patty Jewett neighborhood. Roughly the area around the Patty Jewett golf course and directly east of the Old North End. You may be pushing your budget a bit, but I think you'll find some properties that meet your needs. PJ is an older downtown neighborhood with lots of bungalows and mid-century homes. Definitely not the SE Fountain/Circle, Airport/Circle area.

I love the Patty Jewett neighborhood. It is my favorite area of town. Unfortunately, with the OP's budget in mind, he (or she) might be priced out, even in this economy. Even though the area is quite desireable for a variety of reasons, it is still over priced IMHO.....

I agree with you as far as the areas to avoid. I'm a native of the Springs and I grew up around Pikes Peak and Chelton. People were wise to avoid the areas around Chelton & Airport, Circle & Fountain, Chelton & Fountain, University Drive, Knob Hill in its entirety, and Stratmoor Hills even 30+ years ago when I was a kid. These areas haven't gotten any better since....

Patty Jewett and the West Side are good examples of gentrification. Once the yuppies discovered and fell in love with these areas, they improved dramatically, but the prices shot up to ridiculous levels as well. Too bad there can't seem to be any compromise.....