'The pine beetle's deadly march' (Boulder, Aspen: university, live, codes)

[Noahma]

Originally Posted by Shuffler

...or stop taxing mountain land owners for fire protection and leave them to fend for themselves....after all, isn't that the point of 'mountain living' - to be resourceful and independent?

Mandate residential cistern/deluge systems, fire-ready building materials, defensible space, and let those fires burn!

I bet some of the big insurers are re-writing their policies for Grand/Summit County residents...

if only you knew what us Designers have to go through to get a building permit for homes in the mountains...... we DO have to come up with fire mitigation plans, and follow specific codes to help protect the home in the unfortunate possibility of a fire. The codes get more and more strict each year, people are still willing to pay the hundreds of thousands of dollars in increase for the cost of the home. BTW, it would be very helpful if Boulder County had more than one person to go to regarding the fire mitigation plans, and the acceptance of them (he is incredibly hard to get ahold of.)

[Idunn]

1.) Do the fire mitigation plans concern the surrounding landscaping (forest), the residence, or both?

2.) In Boulder County to obtain a building permit for a new residence within the forest is the cost literally hundreds of thousands of dollars above that of a comparable residence elsewhere (say in eastern Colorado)?

3.) Beyond that, is the residence at last built really all that more fireproof than any other?

These three questions as I wonder if such restrictions will have any significant impact beyond adding to red tape. They are removing dead trees in some affected areas, and as heartbreaking as it must be to the owners if to a sufficient extent then maybe their residence relatively safe from fire. But anyone else more or less within a forest must surely be affected should a massive forest fire occur.

[wanneroo]

Fire is natural and the stupidity of man for not letting nature run it's course is evident.

Fire also kept the pine beetle in check as well and I think the beetle is natures way of thinning out the forest since they wont let fire due it.

I believe they have done research and found in Colorado over hundreds of years there have been beetle outbreaks from time to time and the conclusion of many is to let it run it's course. After all once they have eaten most of the trees the pine beetle will croak.

[Noahma]

Originally Posted by Idunn

1.) Do the fire mitigation plans concern the surrounding landscaping (forest), the residence, or both?

2.) In Boulder County to obtain a building permit for a new residence within the forest is the cost literally hundreds of thousands of dollars above that of a comparable residence elsewhere (say in eastern Colorado)?

3.) Beyond that, is the residence at last built really all that more fireproof than any other?

These three questions as I wonder if such restrictions will have any significant impact beyond adding to red tape. They are removing dead trees in some affected areas, and as heartbreaking as it must be to the owners if to a sufficient extent then maybe their residence relatively safe from fire. But anyone else more or less within a forest must surely be affected should a massive forest fire occur.

the fire mitigation plans must include both residence, and lot. there are several "Zones" around the house that must be cleared

houses above a certain size (4000 sqft. as an example) Must have a professionally designed home sprinkler system, much like you would find in any commercial building. These systems are very costly, and must be maintained (drained, and re pressurized) regularly. Certain types of exterior building materials that are prone to fire (shake shingle) are not permitted, as well as wood burning fireplaces. They are more fireproof than other types of construction. You will find many homes that were built before these codes were put into place (2003 I think) that would go up like a box of matches placed in front of a blow torch, but with the more recent code changes, the new constructions are "safer"

[drb85650]

Originally Posted by DOUBLE H

My sister lives 3 miles NE of Bailey. When she bought, I got after her on this subject and she heeded that advice. The major insurance companies warned a lot of homeowners from her area to clean up their properties, and they had X amount of days to do it. Drb85650-whazzup? I remember Flagstaff's situation three winters ago as I went through there in the middle of that "drought." I mention that term kind of loosely with Flag-town as that area can get socked with a 2 foot snowstorm at the drop of a hat. I know that the ski base at Humphreys Peak gave up in late January as no snow had fallen in weeks. I think it was 3 winters ago anyway. Did that area get any snow or did the Snowbowl just just bag the season and kept it shut down?

Snowbowl shut down that year. And within the last 6 months they have been given permission to use reclaimed water in their snow machines. That may seem silly to some, but understand the San Francisco Peaks are considered sacred to some Native Americans. Using "clean" sewer water is a insult. And water is too precious in that part of the state to use drinkable water for that purpose.

[drb85650]

[quote=Idunn;5839000]Yes, that appearing as reddish brown sticks are dead trees, and the area referred to between Granby, CO and Grand Lake, CO has been severely affected.

Thanks for the update. I have not visited that area since 1974 or so. Hard to comprehend that the family cabin is pushing 45 years old. We peeled the logs by hand, Dad notched the first 2 rows with a axe but gave in and bought a chainsaw. The view of the ranch valley below was fantastic, there was a old movie prop built on top the hill overlooking the Lake/reservoir. It was a 3 sided log cabin, partial roof and floor. "Dillie Docks" ran a bait shop on the highway. There was a Model T coupe in the woods below us, long abandoned. The weirdest thing was a frame of rotted wood, about 8-10 feet long, 4 feet wide that protruded thru the pine needle bed. Digging into it I found large bones, Dad thought it either a horse or cow from the size of the ribs and neck, the skull was gone.Why it had a coffin/wood surround or whatever it was, don't know. What a place for a kid to explore!
Think I'll leave memories as they are with green trees.

[HTSHT]

From my perspective: Lodgepole pine "generally" needs large scale stand replacing fires for regeneration purposes, be it in live/green stands or beetle hit forest. Once these dead standing "red-needle" trees lose their needles, fire severity deminishes exponetially. As far as the Urban Interface is concerned; the policy of "let burn" and prescribed fire use, is not highly regarded in the publics' eyes here on the Front Range.

[jazzlover]

The US Forest Service released new maps today of the mountain pine beetle infestation in Colorado. To no one's surprise, the infestation is growing by leaps and bounds--now over 2 million acres statewide. The beetles are now also moving from their favorite meal, lodgepoles, into the ponderosa pine forests--like the one's surrounding all those trophy homes in the Denver mountain suburbs.

Thanks to the souring economy, the state budget is also now been pretty much munched up--and there likely will be little money to spend (waste) on trying to stop the beetle infestation. There are now open predictions that we could see a "megafire"--maybe 500,000 acres or more in the not-distant future. People may just find out that when they **** with Mother Nature and build in the middle of a tinderbox--well, they may be a little upset when their house's highest, best, and final use may be as "fuel." Hopefully, they'll know enough to get the hell out when the time comes, and not also become "fuel." People love to gush about Colorado's magnificent landscape, but when it finally turns around and slaps you flat, you stay slapped. Mother Nature bats last . . .

[Ticky909]

I watched the infestation spread for years and years making progress from a few trees turning red to a few years down the road red forests choked with dead trees. Just recently I've seen a little bit of countermeasure or at least 'make the best out of it' in a little bit of a dead tree salvage beginning. When my dad was in the forest service in Oregon in the 70's-80's he said it was there, I don't know if it spread west to east. Ultimately theres nothing that can be done, some sort of disaster will happen, either a massive fire, or mudslides, rivers choked with sediment, increased runoff and resultant flooding, or maybe all of that. The only measures that can be reasonably taken, I'm not sure of, perhaps it might be best not to do anything and let the invevitable happen, that would probably be the best way to limit the spread, versus going out and trying to stop them.

[ottodog]

I know the sky is falling, the locust are coming, and the rivers will soon run red, but where are all these dead tree's?? I could really use some firewood!!