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Maybe if people were paid a "living wage" rather than a minimum wage and the cost of living, especially housing and food(which has Gone through the roof lately) went down there'd be less need for welfare and less people on it. The wages wouldn't even have to be raised that much if you simply got the cost of neccessities like food and or a ****bag studio apt under control. Look at NYC as a prime example. 50% of the people living there make less than 50k, yet a 1 bedroom apt that's in a descent area rents for around 3k a month minimum. There is no middle class. Just dirt poor welfare housing and super rich.
Yes...Get ready, we are about to enter an age of very rich,rich,poor,very poor. All signs point to it and its a disgrace its coming to this.
Yay! I get to make the first post of 2012 in the Connecticut forum! Happy New Year!!!
HMM.....and to think that if I made a post like this, the admin (as he has done before) would delete it for being "off topic"
Quote:
Originally Posted by nep321
Welfare is a hallmark element of socialism and has no place in the United States of America. I think you should move to Sweden.
While I think there are people who royally abuse welfare and that should be dealt with (and a lot of good reform like "workfare" came out in the 90s.....though it doesn't work if there's no jobs to "dole out"), what is your solution?
Please don't simply give the whole "the free markets will work it out" agenda......yes, a complete lack of "market" and complete government control produces it's own problems, but we are not talking about Cuba or the old Soviet Union here. If you don't have some sort of safety net, here's what happens:
1) The rich get richer, the poor get poorer (somewhat happening right now anyway) and exploited; and for many of the poor it is through no fault of their own (i.e. jobs going overseas and no new jobs to replace them).
2) The poor (growing in number) have no recourse, become homeless, get hungry, start to die off.
3) Those who survive commit crimes and riot and burn, burn, burn.
I grant that in the end the "free markets" might solve it in that eventually the rich become poor because everyone else can't afford squat and things start to "balance out", but that would take a very long time and the "collateral damage" along the way would be incredible and tragic. You need some small but significant "check and balance" to keep it a "fair playing field" for all. For example, I do think there's a limit to minimum wage in terms of suppressing jobs, but I think if we had no minimum wage at all it would be a societal nightmare chock full of exploitation. Aiming to be India or China is very short-sighted and wrong-headed.
Forget about the "union abuses" that sometimes occur today (and I emphasize sometimes), why don't you read about the pre-union labor riots of the 1800s and how innocent people were killed en masse in desperation. I find it appalling that in 2012 so many people want to go back to the 19th Century......
Oh and by the way, I've noticed in the last two years that people who post such absolutes as you do tend to change their tune if they lose their job and find they still have no full time job after a year of looking, etc.
I knew this thread would turn into something like this, I bet it gets locked soon......
Living in NY, The benifits are low and the requirements and quality of services are lacking in consistancy. You can and will have your case closed at their whim. But I'd like to know more about CT. Willing to relocate to find work and support my family.
Depends, from my point of view, as a taxpayer, welfare benefits stink. If your looking to relocate to find work and support your family you might start a thread about employment oportunities instead of welfare. IMO we shouldn't give people any assistance until they have been productive citizens for awhile.
Maybe if people were paid a "living wage" rather than a minimum wage and the cost of living, especially housing and food(which has Gone through the roof lately) went down there'd be less need for welfare and less people on it. The wages wouldn't even have to be raised that much if you simply got the cost of neccessities like food and or a ****bag studio apt under control. Look at NYC as a prime example. 50% of the people living there make less than 50k, yet a 1 bedroom apt that's in a descent area rents for around 3k a month minimum. There is no middle class. Just dirt poor welfare housing and super rich.
I call BS. First this aint NYC, second There are people in every corner of CT that cant speak the language & dont even belong here that do fine. In fact many become legit & are now working for themselves. Sure CT is very expensive & certainly there is no excuse for it. BUT, if you get out there & work your butt off its doable, or you can move someplace cheaper. Welfare MAKES IT EXPENSIVE TO LIVE HERE, it doesnt help anyone who wants to get ahead, just those who are happy at the bottom. Best thing we could do to spur the economy here is deport all the welfare recipients & give that money back to the taxpayer. Dang bleeding hearts wont be happy till there really are only rich & poor.
I call BS. First this aint NYC, second There are people in every corner of CT that cant speak the language & dont even belong here that do fine. In fact many become legit & are now working for themselves. Sure CT is very expensive & certainly there is no excuse for it. BUT, if you get out there & work your butt off its doable, or you can move someplace cheaper. Welfare MAKES IT EXPENSIVE TO LIVE HERE, it doesnt help anyone who wants to get ahead, just those who are happy at the bottom. Best thing we could do to spur the economy here is deport all the welfare recipients & give that money back to the taxpayer. Dang bleeding hearts wont be happy till there really are only rich & poor.
Many of "those people who can't speak the language" do 'fine' and make ends meet by living in "illegal" (yes, pun intended) lifestyles like 12+ people in a 1 BR apartment and/or by working 60-100 hrs./week at minimum wage in sometimes dangerous situations. Granted, being 'undocumented' helps foster that (since they're already breaking the law just by being here, who can they call? Though if you're talking about 'illegals' getting welfare that's a different story that I can agree with you on), but while I'm all for hard work and pulling up by one's bootstraps as best as possible, do you expect most American citizens to mimic that extreme way of life so that it's "doable"? There's a fine line between "working your butt off" and "being exploited".
We are supposed to be "a light unto all nations" that provides a shining example of how NOT to be like a Third World society of oppression, poor quality of life and extreme income inequality, but we are becoming more and more a nation that thinks the "only way" to survive is to imitate those very societies. I would not be 'proud' of job/economic growth that is very downwardly mobile for the majority of the people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker
Depends, from my point of view, as a taxpayer, welfare benefits stink. If your looking to relocate to find work and support your family you might start a thread about employment oportunities instead of welfare. IMO we shouldn't give people any assistance until they have been productive citizens for awhile.
However, like I said in my first post to this thread, I agree with you (again, implied here) that moving to another state just for supposed improved welfare benefits is wrong (and shows a lot of 'chutzpah', probably the most family-friendly word I can think of to describe it). Maybe the OP should move to California instead, I half-joked earlier that NY used to be the "poster child" for welfare abuse, maybe Cali is the modern-day equivalent:
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