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. I’ll bet you bill out each worker at a 2.5 to 3.0 multiplier. That’s what my employer does and they turn in a tidy profit every year even after paying overhead and benefits.
Smart businessmen. That is good, Jay, as they should keep in business then.
So your workers should be subjected to an entire life of near poverty and struggle so you can have the finer things in life? Come on now. You try living on less than $24,000 a year and tell me how easy it is.
If a worker never got past being unskilled, they need to reflect on what they did wrong, and be grateful anyone will hire them. Yes, they may need to work 2 jobs to make ends meet. Cable-forget about it. Smart Phones-forget about it. Dining out at nice expensive restaurants-forget about it.
We are the land of opportunity, and if anyone chooses not to partake, it is on them to deal with.
Between providing basic education, and deeply subsidizing state community and 4 year colleges, we did plenty to give them a shot. But it takes motivation on their end, also.
Business owners like Stepfordct have shown plenty of motivation, scrimping many years at the start of the business. We should be celebrating the sacrifices they made to succeed and provide opportunities for others.
If a worker never got past being unskilled, they need to reflect on what they did wrong, and be grateful anyone will hire them. Yes, they may need to work 2 jobs to make ends meet. Cable-forget about it. Smart Phones-forget about it. Dining out at nice expensive restaurants-forget about it.
We are the land of opportunity, and if anyone chooses not to partake, it is on them to deal with.
Between providing basic education, and deeply subsidizing state community and 4 year colleges, we did plenty to give them a shot. But it takes motivation on their end, also.
Business owners like Stepfordct have shown plenty of motivation, scrimping many years at the start of the business. We should be celebrating the sacrifices they made to succeed and provide opportunities for others.
Bob you wholly underestimate inherited limitations for people of a lower socioeconomic starting point. I know you're all bootstraps and everything but for a good portion of the population what you think anyone can do isn't as feasible as you think. It all starts when they are born, if you are born into a lower economic status, you're more likely to have worse nutrition (anemia has a direct affect on brain development) and lower direct verbal interaction with loved ones (just hearing a large vocabulary of words even before you can talk). These then affect the cognitive development of 0-5 year old's brain. This is one of the main reasons why spending more money directly into schools of urban populations doesn't show the results everyone would like. That's because by that point their cognitive ability is already at the lower end of the spectrum and won't be able to be corrected.
It's not just work really hard and you can do anything. It's not even work really hard and you can get out of poverty for a lot of these people. They have an inherited ceiling on their capabilities.
Another reason why start smart programs for urban areas and food assistance are two of (in my opinion) the most impactful social programs we have in bettering our urban populations that will reap benefits 15 years down the line.
Bob you wholly underestimate inherited limitations for people of a lower socioeconomic starting point. .
You are hilarious.
I was one, as were many classmates who thrived. Grew up in a lower middle class blue collar household. 850 sq foot house-5 to 7 people living there. (2 siblings, but had 1-2 grandparents with us often).
Dad worked for relatively low wages in a low tech machine shop; mom worked retail at times, bakery at time. Depression era "kids' who quit high school since their parents needed all kids, 13 and older, earning money. They did so, w/o complaining. They were determined their kids would get the education they needed, and despite modest income, we ate very well.
One used car, dad often walked to work 5 miles to save money. The two typically worked between them 90-100 hours per week. 2 of us graduated college (one with Masters, one a BA, third graduated from a business school).
My classmates parents were also lower middle class to middle class. Most were 2 income families as well.
Now that generation generally thrived as its values were sound, and always, always, long-term.
PS: Per government studies, most everyone in the nation ends up in multiple economic quartiles in their lifetimes.
Bob you wholly underestimate inherited limitations for people of a lower socioeconomic starting point. I know you're all bootstraps and everything but for a good portion of the population what you think anyone can do isn't as feasible as you think.
Nurture is vital, and the big problem in many lower class regions today is they are not just poor. That can be overcome. They are dysfunctional starting with the "parents". The families who follow the basic steps outlined by Liberal Democrat Pat Moynihan in his landmark 20th century report do quite well, usually, long-term. In our inner cities, they do not, and IMO there is no "family" in too many cases, and that is not correctable by any government action.
I was one, as were many classmates who thrived. Grew up in a lower middle class blue collar household. 850 sq foot house-5 to 7 people living there. (2 siblings, but had 1-2 grandparents with us often).
Dad worked for relatively low wages in a low tech machine shop; mom worked retail at times, bakery at time. Depression era "kids' who quit high school since their parents needed all kids, 13 and older, earning money. They did so, w/o complaining. They were determined their kids would get the education they needed, and despite modest income, we ate very well.
One used car, dad often walked to work 5 miles to save money. The two typically worked between them 90-100 hours per week. 2 of us graduated college (one with Masters, one a BA, third graduated from a business school).
My classmates parents were also lower middle class to middle class. Most were 2 income families as well.
Now that generation generally thrived as its values were sound, and always, always, long-term.
PS: Per government studies, most everyone in the nation ends up in multiple economic quartiles in their lifetimes.
Congrats Bob, you were born into a house with two parents where you didn't worry about where your next meal came from. You weren't on food stamps or section 8. Your family actually had a car. I'm not talking about people like you. The middle quintiles of people are not the majority struggling on minimum wage. Blue collar factory work now barely pays above minimum wage if that.
Congrats Bob, you were born into a house with two parents where you didn't worry about where your next meal came from. You weren't on food stamps or section 8. Your family actually had a car. I'm not talking about people like you. The middle quintiles of people are not the majority struggling on minimum wage. Blue collar factory work now barely pays above minimum wage if that.
We would never take food stamps. Family believed in hard work, do it yourself. Blue collar shop dad worked for paid poorly, but no complaints ever.
Half the MW are kids. They will (in large number) obtain education and training and move on. Target now offers tuition assistance even for the store staff.
Another significant part of MW staff (who are just 1 in 37 or so US workers) are in their early 20s. Most will progress past it, also.
We've always had some content not to add skills. I never worry about folks unwilling to improve. There is no better product to spend money on than one's own Fair Market Value.
I was one, as were many classmates who thrived. Grew up in a lower middle class blue collar household. 850 sq foot house-5 to 7 people living there. (2 siblings, but had 1-2 grandparents with us often).
Dad worked for relatively low wages in a low tech machine shop; mom worked retail at times, bakery at time. Depression era "kids' who quit high school since their parents needed all kids, 13 and older, earning money. They did so, w/o complaining. They were determined their kids would get the education they needed, and despite modest income, we ate very well.
One used car, dad often walked to work 5 miles to save money. The two typically worked between them 90-100 hours per week. 2 of us graduated college (one with Masters, one a BA, third graduated from a business school).
My classmates parents were also lower middle class to middle class. Most were 2 income families as well.
Now that generation generally thrived as its values were sound, and always, always, long-term.
PS: Per government studies, most everyone in the nation ends up in multiple economic quartiles in their lifetimes.
I think you are the hilarious one here. You just proved the value of minimum wages do you don’t even realize it.
Your parents are an excellent example. If your father’s wages were lower than they were, your parents wouldn’t have a home or car. It’s easy to think otherwise but minimum wages help set all wages. They pushed up your father’s salary into middle class territory and gave them enough to save for a down payment and qualify for a mortgage. Isn’t that the American Dream? Sadly it is harder today for the poor to move up the economic ladder. Without a decent minimum wage, all salaries will be less and there are less of a middle class. Jay
You make more in durable goods and more in trades but yes you can make 55k in ct.
Back to minimum wage if was not meant to raise a family or buy a house. No labor and housing market or rental market has ever allowed this even going back to the mid 1950s. Yes people *are* worth more. But not at that job.
Price is one factor and frankly if you raise wages it also justifies raising standards. Who would hire a high school dropout over a graduate if minimum wage is $15/hr? Do the people you want to help are actually going to be hurt. How much automation will siphon off employees? Keep in mind wages are just part of compensation. Add another 30-40% for health care, taxes, retirement etc The more we mandate the more it hurts smaller entities.
I think you are the hilarious one here. You just proved the value of minimum wages do you don’t even realize it.
Your parents are an excellent example. If your father’s wages were lower than they were, your parents wouldn’t have a home or car.
nonsense Jay. MW at that time was lower than now adjusted for COL. What helped is Ct was Income tax free, property taxes were microscopically low ,and what helped more is we sacrificed. Plus my dad's shop had hundreds around it-competition helps workers. That is why though they paid low and made low profits given what they did, they still paid more than a store job or fast food would. Competition.
2 parents worked 90-100 hours/wk, one USED car (cheap), one walked to work to save bus fare. They knew their whole lives they lacked the background to get better jobs, so they overcame via a ton of hard work and sacrifice. A vacation for us was a trip to Pa once a year eating sandwiches mom made at stops along the way, staying with dad's family (no hotels).
But it was a great childhood, as our family, even extended, was ultra close and values oriented. It was about doing a bit better every generation by each one adding skills, education, and training. My nephew and nieces are thriving even more than my generation as a result. One will retire in a few years, early 50s, after a terrific career primarily at UBS in Chicago. A niece is a lawyer living in a gated community.
Minimum wage was never discussed at home, btw. I worked at the same store as my mom one high school summer and when a manager liked us (me and young girl I was partnered with at the store) and co-worker teased mom I could get a better store job, she quickly admonished her that I was not college bound to do that stuff. This was just a summer time job for me.
PS: Our house cost $10k in the late 50s when my parents bought it. 1/3rd the price of a new car today. Very small, old fashioned, cesspool in back yard. But functional.
Last edited by BobNJ1960; 08-09-2021 at 03:17 PM..
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Come on now. You try living on less than $24,000 a year and tell me how easy it is. 
