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Another option is to build a new facility at Rentschler Field.
The XL center is nice to have, but its certainly not a necessity. New Haven has been doing just fine since the closing of the Coliseum. Spending hundreds of millions of dollars on a facility that's used primarily for concerts and college and minor league sports doesn't seem like a great use of state funds, especially with the state's current fiscal issues.
Building a new arena at Rentschler Field would do little for economic development and leave a pretty big hole in the middle of downtown Hartford. The XL Center generates a lot of money for businesses downtown including restaurants, bars and hotels. It does not make sense for the state to plop it down in the middle of a field where there is little else around to attract people and business.
As for New Haven, I still wonder if the city did the right thing by closing the Coliseum. The site has sat vacant for years and despite all the promises made by the developer for the site, I am not seeing a lot of movement on the site. It will still be years before anything is actually built there and what is proposed, housing, a hotel and maybe some offices, is really not much more than can be built at other vacant sites nearby. A lot of people do not go into New Haven now, going to events like ice shows, the circus, major concerts, etc. by going to Bridgeport, Hartford or Mohegan Sun for these events. The slack has been picked up by a lot of people moving downtown or doing the bar/restaurant scene but imagine how much more it could be if the Coliseum was still there holding major events. Jay
Hartford isn't the major hub for CT either. CT has Stamford/Norwalk, Bridgeport, and New Haven which are all growing metros. Hartford is also the only major city that is shrinking in population.
To Mike 75's point, New Haven has been growing despite having no arena presence. Hartford has elements that New Haven would really benefit from (airport nearby, convention center, arena), and yet New Haven is growing a lot faster.
I think Hartford is the most important hub in CT. Ill say that. Though its an opinion not a fact so i respect your opinion. Hartford has the largest metropolitan area, strongest economy, most jobs, and its the state capital. I get what your saying but Greater New Haven's population is barely growing. Probably less than .02% since its last census. Hartford and New Haven are almost equal in population though New Haven beats Hartford by a small margin. I get that you don't need an arena to grow. I know that New Haven is doing well but having a reason to bring people into downtown areas are very important to local businesses and the city's economy. Of course New Haven is doing well because it has a better nightlife and more things to do than Hartford for various reasons. New Haven has colleges like Yale which brings thousands of people in downtown. Bars, Restaurants, and the waterfront all have a key role. What about Hartford? Hartford doesn't have a large college presence like New Haven and doesn't have a waterfront because of Interstate 91. How are you going to bring people in Hartford? Events such as concerts and sporting events are all positives that Hartford has that other cities lack. Why would you want to lose that great ingredient that fuels Hartford downtown success? When an event comes to CT most likely it'll land at the XL Center because it's one of a few large arenas in the state. Having an outdated arena with no attractions lands more events going elsewhere like Boston, Providence, and New York. With the MGM coming to Springfield that'll land a new competitor as well but thats another story.
Building a new arena at Rentschler Field would do little for economic development and leave a pretty big hole in the middle of downtown Hartford. The XL Center generates a lot of money for businesses downtown including restaurants, bars and hotels. It does not make sense for the state to plop it down in the middle of a field where there is little else around to attract people and business.
As for New Haven, I still wonder if the city did the right thing by closing the Coliseum. The site has sat vacant for years and despite all the promises made by the developer for the site, I am not seeing a lot of movement on the site. It will still be years before anything is actually built there and what is proposed, housing, a hotel and maybe some offices, is really not much more than can be built at other vacant sites nearby. A lot of people do not go into New Haven now, going to events like ice shows, the circus, major concerts, etc. by going to Bridgeport, Hartford or Mohegan Sun for these events. The slack has been picked up by a lot of people moving downtown or doing the bar/restaurant scene but imagine how much more it could be if the Coliseum was still there holding major events. Jay
Good points
I dont think New Haven needs an arena. Bridgeport is too close. The only real sporting events that go on in New Haven that need a venue are by Yale. It has the Yale Bowl which is where Yale football is played and the Ingalls Rink which is where Yale hockey is played.
I don't think the future looks bright for the civic center. Hartford already has a new convention center, many concerts are held at Mohegan Sun, and Springfield, MA is getting a new casino. I don't know if the Springfield casino will include an arena though.
I don't think the area can support all these arenas. I'm curious what would happen to the civic center space if it was demolished ? Maybe make it a transportation center such as a bigger Union Station and add a parking garage ? Hartford could use more parking downtown.
I heard this on the news again recently, but Amtrak is considering high speed rail from NYC to Boston thru CT but doesn't want to stop in CT. That's crazy, but imagine if we do get a stop in Hartford and the high speed rail is a reality. Would in then be possible to travel to NYC or Boston from Hartford in 90 minutes or less? Imagine the employment possibilities that could open for CT residents.
Personally, I wouldn't want a commute 90 minutes one way. Although I could probably do 60 minutes.
Hartford isn't the major hub for CT either. CT has Stamford/Norwalk, Bridgeport, and New Haven which are all growing metros. Hartford is also the only major city that is shrinking in population.
To Mike 75's point, New Haven has been growing despite having no arena presence. Hartford has elements that New Haven would really benefit from (airport nearby, convention center, arena), and yet New Haven is growing a lot faster.
According to the link below Hartford's population has grown by 2.63%, not decreased. Stamford and New Haven's population has grown by 4.75% and 4.98%. Higher but not significantly higher.
Hartford is the largest employer center in the state. It has significantly more jobs within its borders (112,000) than Stamford (75,000) or New Haven (79,000). It is the center of the state's largest metropolitan area with more than 1 million people. Sure the city itself may not be growing as fast as New Haven or Stamford but those cities metropolitan area's still have a long way to go to overtake Hartford metro. Also note that Hartford has seen a major economic boom in residential housing in its downtown with thousands of unit under construction and in the planning stages. With one of the tightest rental markets in the country it is likely that most of the units being planned will ultimately get built. I would not count Hartford down and out by any means. A lot is happening there and the future looks to be even brighter. Jay
As for New Haven, I still wonder if the city did the right thing by closing the Coliseum. The site has sat vacant for years and despite all the promises made by the developer for the site, I am not seeing a lot of movement on the site. It will still be years before anything is actually built there and what is proposed, housing, a hotel and maybe some offices, is really not much more than can be built at other vacant sites nearby. A lot of people do not go into New Haven now, going to events like ice shows, the circus, major concerts, etc. by going to Bridgeport, Hartford or Mohegan Sun for these events. The slack has been picked up by a lot of people moving downtown or doing the bar/restaurant scene but imagine how much more it could be if the Coliseum was still there holding major events. Jay
True, that place was a treasure, these new arenas just ain't the same
I don't think the future looks bright for the civic center. Hartford already has a new convention center, many concerts are held at Mohegan Sun, and Springfield, MA is getting a new casino. I don't know if the Springfield casino will include an arena though.
I don't think the area can support all these arenas. I'm curious what would happen to the civic center space if it was demolished ? Maybe make it a transportation center such as a bigger Union Station and add a parking garage ? Hartford could use more parking downtown.
I heard this on the news again recently, but Amtrak is considering high speed rail from NYC to Boston thru CT but doesn't want to stop in CT. That's crazy, but imagine if we do get a stop in Hartford and the high speed rail is a reality. Would in then be possible to travel to NYC or Boston from Hartford in 90 minutes or less? Imagine the employment possibilities that could open for CT residents.
Personally, I wouldn't want a commute 90 minutes one way. Although I could probably do 60 minutes.
Springfield's arena, the Mass Mutual Center, will be incorporated or connected to the new casino. They will not be building a new separate one but MGM has promised to use the old facility for major events.
So far it does not appear to be a problem with all the different arenas in the area. They each serve different markets. Bridgeport wanted one for years but was not able to get it off the ground until Habor Yard was built. Not sure how well it would have done if New Haven had not closed. Jay
I don't understand Hartford's obsession with building a world class arena or hosting a major league sports team. That stuff might be appropriate at some point but you need to walk before you can run. The best way to turn around Hartford is with the principle that it happens organically, meaning from the ground up. Big, expensive, grandiose projects that are misaligned with a city's scale or character ring hollow and do not give the place the vibrant heart and soul that is needed to make a city great. In fact they can create a hollow core and accomplish the opposite of what's intended.
While certainly a more extreme example, Dubai has built the world's tallest building to give a message that Dubai is a world class city, its 'arrived', it's great, etc. But these kinds of projects do not make a city great and I think most people would agree that Dubai has very little heart and soul compared to the world's great cities and what heart and soul you might find there is not created by tall flashy buildings.
The XL Center is a fine arena and huge investments to replace it or make it grander are a waste of precious development funding. Better to focus on filling it every night with vibrant events both big and smaller that the city can embrace. The best way to make a case for a new or expanded arena is to outgrow the current one - Overuse it. Wear it out. Overflow it. Love it to death. Don't sit back and complain that nobody wants to use it because it's not good enough and that if you make it grander or build a new one, 'they will come'. "If only we had more VIP luxury boxes..." The very old Boston Garden was used into the mid-90s and despite it's extreme shortcomings, it was well used and felt almost loved to death. Yes, its replacement took too long but the point is that the need for a replacement was proven by the (over)use of the old one - in that way you could say that Boston 'earned' a shiny new one. Hartford hasn't earned a new shiny arena. You all know the types of people who go out and buy the most expensive bicycles, tennis rackets or guitars but hardly ever use them or grossly under-use them. Then there are the scrappy types who have passion for the activity and are out there at 6am doing 100 miles on a 25 year old bike, jamming hard at every opportunity with a scruffy old guitar, etc. I'd rather Hartford be the scrappy type than the passionless type always wanting the latest toys and blaming the equipment that he has. Do more with less rather than do less with more. Building something grand with the hopes that it will pull Hartford up by its bootstraps is pure fantasy and a dangerous waste of precious funds.
So what should Hartford do? Get the heart and soul back from the ground up. Find those niches that people will embrace, whatever they may be. For example - nurture and invest in farmer's markets (I know they already are some) that will draw people in and cause them to linger for a while, buying and eating food in an environment that is more dynamic than the suburban grocery store. Promote live music of all kinds all around the city. I just read that Hartford is in the top 10 for gay population - promote 'gay friendly' events that everyone will enjoy. Whatever...these are only examples and maybe bad ones but I think this kind of approach is the way to bring Hartford back. Assess what assets Hartford has and build on those - e.g. beautiful old architecture, ethnic diversity, impressive skyline and small scale city, low cost living compared to NY and Boston, passion for UCONN bb, the river, The Hartt school for music, etc, etc. Strengthening the heart and soul is not misaligned with bringing in the dollars. Growth and improvement is a virtuous circle. Talented and creative people want to live in places with a vibrant heart and soul. Businesses want to locate (or stay) in places with talented and creative people. People want to go to and spend money in those places. Enduring going into Hartford because you have to in order to see the Whalers (or whatever) rings hollow with people. Going to Hartford because there is live music (or whatever) all around you and fun and interesting things happen when you go there is what draws people and creates heart and soul.
Further investment in the city's infrastructure is also needed to enable the organic turnaround e.g. public transportation, roads, schools, libraries, etc. Collaboration between the public and private sectors to solve problem spots block by block is also a good enabler. Fix the foundation before you even think about building the flashy, grandiose projects.
I don't understand Hartford's obsession with building a world class arena or hosting a major league sports team. That stuff might be appropriate at some point but you need to walk before you can run. The best way to turn around Hartford is with the principle that it happens organically, meaning from the ground up. Big, expensive, grandiose projects that are misaligned with a city's scale or character ring hollow and do not give the place the vibrant heart and soul that is needed to make a city great. In fact they can create a hollow core and accomplish the opposite of what's intended.
While certainly a more extreme example, Dubai has built the world's tallest building to give a message that Dubai is a world class city, its 'arrived', it's great, etc. But these kinds of projects do not make a city great and I think most people would agree that Dubai has very little heart and soul compared to the world's great cities and what heart and soul you might find there is not created by tall flashy buildings.
The XL Center is a fine arena and huge investments to replace it or make it grander are a waste of precious development funding. Better to focus on filling it every night with vibrant events both big and smaller that the city can embrace. The best way to make a case for a new or expanded arena is to outgrow the current one - Overuse it. Wear it out. Overflow it. Love it to death. Don't sit back and complain that nobody wants to use it because it's not good enough and that if you make it grander or build a new one, 'they will come'. "If only we had more VIP luxury boxes..." The very old Boston Garden was used into the mid-90s and despite it's extreme shortcomings, it was well used and felt almost loved to death. Yes, its replacement took too long but the point is that the need for a replacement was proven by the (over)use of the old one - in that way you could say that Boston 'earned' a shiny new one. Hartford hasn't earned a new shiny arena. You all know the types of people who go out and buy the most expensive bicycles, tennis rackets or guitars but hardly ever use them or grossly under-use them. Then there are the scrappy types who have passion for the activity and are out there at 6am doing 100 miles on a 25 year old bike, jamming hard at every opportunity with a scruffy old guitar, etc. I'd rather Hartford be the scrappy type than the passionless type always wanting the latest toys and blaming the equipment that he has. Do more with less rather than do less with more. Building something grand with the hopes that it will pull Hartford up by its bootstraps is pure fantasy and a dangerous waste of precious funds.
So what should Hartford do? Get the heart and soul back from the ground up. Find those niches that people will embrace, whatever they may be. For example - nurture and invest in farmer's markets (I know they already are some) that will draw people in and cause them to linger for a while, buying and eating food in an environment that is more dynamic than the suburban grocery store. Promote live music of all kinds all around the city. I just read that Hartford is in the top 10 for gay population - promote 'gay friendly' events that everyone will enjoy. Whatever...these are only examples and maybe bad ones but I think this kind of approach is the way to bring Hartford back. Assess what assets Hartford has and build on those - e.g. beautiful old architecture, ethnic diversity, impressive skyline and small scale city, low cost living compared to NY and Boston, passion for UCONN bb, the river, The Hartt school for music, etc, etc. Strengthening the heart and soul is not misaligned with bringing in the dollars. Growth and improvement is a virtuous circle. Talented and creative people want to live in places with a vibrant heart and soul. Businesses want to locate (or stay) in places with talented and creative people. People want to go to and spend money in those places. Enduring going into Hartford because you have to in order to see the Whalers (or whatever) rings hollow with people. Going to Hartford because there is live music (or whatever) all around you and fun and interesting things happen when you go there is what draws people and creates heart and soul.
Further investment in the city's infrastructure is also needed to enable the organic turnaround e.g. public transportation, roads, schools, libraries, etc. Collaboration between the public and private sectors to solve problem spots block by block is also a good enabler. Fix the foundation before you even think about building the flashy, grandiose projects.
I do not entirely agree with you on this. Hartford is doing a lot to grow "organically" as is witnessed by the hundreds of new apartments in new and converted buildings downtown. The city has many major events and there are a lot of things going on in and around the city all year long. Major projects do have their place as well. The massive Connecticut Convention Center, Front Street, the Connecticut Science Center and Hartford 21 are all great recent successes that draw thousands of people downtown all the time. The new baseball stadium and the adjacent NoDo neighborhood just beginning to be constructed have a great potential to add to this as well.
The XL Center is a 40+ year old facility that has seen better days. In order for it to draw the top major events (concerts, sporting events, trade shows, etc.), it has to be improved. Whether that is renovating it, expanding it or completely replacing it, remains to be seen and decided. The XL draws a lot of people to downtown for major events which equates to a lot of money for businesses and the state in taxes as well as jobs for people. It also helps add to the vibrancy of the city in general. It was great to see Hartford on the national news recently for the woman's basketball playoffs. That one event was estimated to have brought over $4 million into Hartford. It would be nice to see it continue with more of these events. That won't happen if we allow the XL Center to fall apart.
You mentioned liking the old Boston Garden which I remember well and personally found disgusting. It very badly needed replacing and only survived because it was the sole event arena in a very large major city. If there was any sort of competition in the immediate Boston area, you could have bet that the events held at the old Garden would have moved to that facility. I also happen to find Fenway kind of disgusting as well and this is from a person who has a VERY strong respect and loving of historic old structures. They may be charming to some but when they are out of date and in need of repair or updating, something has to be done. Fortunately our state is now looking at the future of the XL Center now before it is too late and the existing facility is rendered completely useless for today's world. Jay
I do not entirely agree with you on this. Hartford is doing a lot to grow "organically" as is witnessed by the hundreds of new apartments in new and converted buildings downtown. The city has many major events and there are a lot of things going on in and around the city all year long. Major projects do have their place as well. The massive Connecticut Convention Center, Front Street, the Connecticut Science Center and Hartford 21 are all great recent successes that draw thousands of people downtown all the time. The new baseball stadium and the adjacent NoDo neighborhood just beginning to be constructed have a great potential to add to this as well.
The XL Center is a 40+ year old facility that has seen better days. In order for it to draw the top major events (concerts, sporting events, trade shows, etc.), it has to be improved. Whether that is renovating it, expanding it or completely replacing it, remains to be seen and decided. The XL draws a lot of people to downtown for major events which equates to a lot of money for businesses and the state in taxes as well as jobs for people. It also helps add to the vibrancy of the city in general. It was great to see Hartford on the national news recently for the woman's basketball playoffs. That one event was estimated to have brought over $4 million into Hartford. It would be nice to see it continue with more of these events. That won't happen if we allow the XL Center to fall apart.
You mentioned liking the old Boston Garden which I remember well and personally found disgusting. It very badly needed replacing and only survived because it was the sole event arena in a very large major city. If there was any sort of competition in the immediate Boston area, you could have bet that the events held at the old Garden would have moved to that facility. I also happen to find Fenway kind of disgusting as well and this is from a person who has a VERY strong respect and loving of historic old structures. They may be charming to some but when they are out of date and in need of repair or updating, something has to be done. Fortunately our state is now looking at the future of the XL Center now before it is too late and the existing facility is rendered completely useless for today's world. Jay
As a quick comparison, Oakdale Theatre is 60 years old and holds only 5000 people yet their line up blows away that of the XL Center. And it's a bloody tent in the middle of nowhere. I don't want to get hung up on Oakdale vs XL but it quickly shows that you can run a vibrant venue in a facility that is anything but world class. Blue Hills Bank Pavilion in Boston also holds 5000 and is rocking just about every other night with great acts in the summer. There are millions of other and better examples so I do not buy your argument that we can't work with what we have and you need to go bigger to keep it hopping. I'm not a concert/sports/events promoter but someone in that business should be able to figure out the right shows/events for the XL and pack it out with interesting things. And if it can't be done with this arena then it certainly won't be done with a shinier version that holds 3000 more people. Making a case for a new arena based on a presumption that it will attract bigger events/shows is not well founded.
Nobody is suggesting that they allow the XL to run down to become 'disgusting'. That's far from reality as $35m has just been spent to upgrade it. While $35m doesn't make it a 2015 world class arena, it's far from allowing it to 'fall apart'.
Even if we accept your assertion that the XL can't attract 'top' events/shows, why do you think that the XL Center needs to attract the 'top' events? What's that, the top 1-5% of 'major' or 'significant' touring events or less? So are you saying that the reason that it's so under-utilized is that it can't attract the 'top' events? Easy then - fill it up with the next tier of shows/events that will lower themselves to play in a 16,500 capacity arena rather than a 19,500 capacity one. Or just keep under-utilizing it while crying that it can't attract 'top' acts. Anyway, many very cool acts that would add a lot to hartford's scene could and would play in the 8000 capacity configuration and not even worry about whether it can hold 16k or 19k people. Mega-shows are not the trend anyway and you can do a lot without them. But hey, if acts don't want to come to Hartford for whatever reason, then building a shiny new arena that holds 3000 more people than the old one and has some nicer VIP boxes will not change that. The only thing worse than an empty/under-used 16,500 capacity 40 year old arena is an empty/under-used 20,000 seat $300m new one.
You completely missed my point about the BG. It's not about 'liking it' or not. It's that they used it to its fullest which is what Hartford should do before asking for a new one. Sure, a new arena would be nice as would a new everything but on the list of priorities for investment, this should be very low. I don't understand your point about Fenway Park being 'disgusting' as I've always found it well cared for and well fit for purpose - but we're all different and i'm just a regular guy going to a ball game. I disagree with a premise that just because something is old, it needs to be replaced.
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