[Henry10]

Originally Posted by BicoastalAnn

Why are you hating on him anyway? He's not advocating that YOU pay higher taxes. What he's talking about only involves people in his "community" of wealth. Let's be real... you and I are never going to get there, if we haven't yet. So why would we be in a better position to dictate what's best or fair for them.

Issue is not simply that he is advocating higher taxes for the rich, but that his advocating for higher taxes.

Let go through the grinder again:

Policitians vote for more taxes. Taxpayer money goes to an already-fat and bloated Federal Govt. Politicians launder the money through the Govt bowls, and diarrhea it out towards whoever is selling his/her vote.

Look at the evidence -- poor are not getting any less poor, middle class are actually getting poorer. The only people who win by this increasingly out-of-control Govt are the rich and politicians themselves. Funny how it works, when all claim to have the interest of the middle class in their hearts.

In the name of the people, impoverish the people. It never fails to trick many gullible either.

[BicoastalAnn]

Originally Posted by Henry10

Issue is not simply that he is advocating higher taxes for the rich, but that his advocating for higher taxes.

Let go through the grinder again:

Policitians vote for more taxes. Taxpayer money goes to an already-fat and bloated Federal Govt. Politicians launder the money through the Govt bowls, and diarrhea it out towards whoever is selling his/her vote.

Look at the evidence -- poor are not getting any less poor, middle class are actually getting poorer. The only people who win by this increasingly out-of-control Govt are the rich and politicians themselves. Funny how it works, when all claim to have the interest of the middle class in their hearts.

In the name of the people, impoverish the people. It never fails to trick many gullible either.

Sure, then just lower taxes on everyone but the very wealthy... that would work for me too. My point isn't to raise taxes just to raise them, but equalize them because I don't think the playing field is even. And I believe that's what people like, yes, Trump, has said too - it's not that you want to tax people more because you can but that you want to level the field. Personally, I am for a flat tax on everyone over the poverty line and do away with deductions aside from those that encourage productive behaviors (like mortgage interest) so we don't get into lowering or raising taxes based on income.

[Henry10]

Originally Posted by BicoastalAnn

Sure, then just lower taxes on everyone but the very wealthy... that would work for me too. My point isn't to raise taxes just to raise them, but equalize them because I don't think the playing field is even. And I believe that's what people like, yes, Trump, has said too - it's not that you want to tax people more because you can but that you want to level the field. Personally, I am for a flat tax on everyone over the poverty line and do away with deductions aside from those that encourage productive behaviors (like mortgage interest) so we don't get into lowering or raising taxes based on income.

I disagree - playing "god" is a major source of politicians' power. We need to get the politicians out of the business of picking and choosing whom to tax to death or not.

So absolutely a flat tax, and for everyone, including and particular the poor, so when the poor decide to raise the taxes, they raise taxes on themselves too.

No more -- "I don't give a ****, I will vote to raise just on you, so why do I care?! So tax you, get your money and Govt gives it to me."

This is a corrupt behavior, and collusion.

Same for middle-income earner and the rich.

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by Henry10

Both MCain and Romney lurched left in general elections. Their losses are on them. Establishment put them up as moderates. They lost badly. Many people stayed home.

It's an oversimplification to blame moderation on their defeats. McCain made a fatal choice in his VP that all but sealed his fate against the Obama juggernaut. Romney was a poor candidate period. He was very difficult for people to relate to.

I'm in Boston ATM and I ran into Jeb Bush in the hotel bar. I was able to speak with him for a few minutes. Nice man, but I think it would be silly to blame his campaign failure on moderation.

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by Henry10

Beeker -- you've been good sport, but to argue that both Obama and Reagan were viewed as moderates from their own respective bases -- that's pretty far off the mark.

Again, look at these not from your own perspective, but from the perspective of their own bases, at the time.

Bush Sr in 1980 and Hillary in 2008 were viewed by GOP and Dem bases, respectively, as moderate / establishment candidates.

Yes, Dem base considered Bill Clinton "moderate" in 1992, but he was not establishment. There wasn't much enthusiasm there. Regardles, reason that Bill Clinton won is because Conservative voters were turned off by Bush Sr breaking the "no new taxes" pledge + Ross Perot splitting the vote with Bush Sr.

Both MCain and Romney lurched left in general elections. Their losses are on them. Establishment put them up as moderates. They lost badly. Many people stayed home.

Originally Posted by BicoastalAnn

Sure, then just lower taxes on everyone but the very wealthy... that would work for me too. My point isn't to raise taxes just to raise them, but equalize them because I don't think the playing field is even. And I believe that's what people like, yes, Trump, has said too - it's not that you want to tax people more because you can but that you want to level the field. Personally, I am for a flat tax on everyone over the poverty line and do away with deductions aside from those that encourage productive behaviors (like mortgage interest) so we don't get into lowering or raising taxes based on income.

If you want to see tax reform, support campaign finance reform. Until giant corporate money and superpacs are taken out of the picture, politicians will never truly represent OUR interests.

[Henry10]

I would also make "welfare" benefits taxable at the said flat Tax.

So people will stop and think -- do I want to pay $ 5 more a week for that policy? Let people think for once, rather than vote like drones to raise taxes on everybody else.

It would also obliterate a corrupt political system.

I would support any candidate who also would push for "strict liability" for politicians. Politicians put the law-abiding tax-payer on strict liabilities all the time. Let's put the politicians on one too.

Strict liability means liability regardless of intent.

For example politicians have raided Social Security, daylight theft and robbery. Plain and simple. Under a strict liability past politicians would be prosecuted and imprisoned.

Let there be justice. And let there be deterrence of future crime by politicians.

No more temporary politicians causing permanent, long-lasting damage.

[BicoastalAnn]

Originally Posted by Henry10

I disagree - playing "god" is a major source of politicians' power. We need to get the politicians out of the business of picking and choosing whom to tax to death or not.

So absolutely a flat tax, and for everyone, including and particular the poor, so when the poor decide to raise the taxes, they raise taxes on themselves too.

No more -- "I don't give a ****, I will vote to raise just on you, so why do I care?! So tax you, get your money and Govt gives it to me."

This is a corrupt behavior, and collusion.

Same for middle-income earner and the rich.

When I say "raise taxes for the rich" I'm saying, "let it be flat" not let them pay the lion's share of taxes just because they are rich - because right now all these tax shelters bring their effective rates far below the middle class (remember the Romney tax debacle?). If you think everyone should pay a a transparent, flat amount, then you either have to get rid of all the single-class tax breaks or raise some of the taxes to match the others.

And I still don't get this "we can't be God" idea you keep saying. We all "play God" by choosing the president whose policies we agree with - so I guess we are electing God. Every single candidate has an opinion on who, what, and how should be taxed and I don't believe anyone is saying it should remain at status quo. So whether you play God or not, your elected official will be.

[mlassoff]

Originally Posted by CTDex

I never expected you to vote for Trump or convince you. But he's the person we need to get this country and state back into order from the mess it's in/heading to.

Why is that?
Why are things so much worse today than, for example, during the Bush years? Just wondering because I heard unemployment rate is at 5%. We had a record year for vehicle sales in the US. There's even a new series of Star Wars Movies. Crime rate is at record lows.

Yes, there are problems but there are always problems... Is it more of a problem because we have news networks and radio trying to scare the **** out of people 24 hours a day so they keep watching?

What is it exactly that is MORE problematic than before?

How will Trump help fix the eroding middle class?
How will Trump eliminate Isis? Will they be just so impressed with him they stop their terroristic activities?
How exactly do you make Mexico pay for that wall? What's the plan?
What about the broken criminal justice system. What's Trump's plan there?
How will Trump keep unemployment at the lows we're currently enjoying? How will he fix the problem of underemployment?
Budget deficit? Is he going to cut spending? Where? How is going to grow the military and cut spending?
What about entitlements-- 99% of our budget problems are due to social security and medicare.

Or will he just exacerbate the problems so the next president can inherit them.

What is it about Trump besides the fact that he's a big "F-U" to the political establishment thats going to fix everything?

Also, how does he plan to become president if he can only garner 35% of the Republican vote while alienating everyone else.

How does this work exactly....

[JayCT]

This thread is becoming nasty and going off topic yet again. I am just going to shut it down. JayCT, Moderator