[JayCT]

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

Oh come on. You can’t even compare the difference between property taxes and a minor grocery tax.

For you, a homeowner, it is. But most lower income families are renters and do not pay property taxes directly unless they own a car. And before you say it, they DO NOT need to own a car to live. All of Connecticut cities and their suburbs have pretty extensive systems of mass transit that poorer people can and do use. Again, I find taxing groceries to be obscene, particularly if, as you claim, it is minor. Talk about nickel and diming the taxpayer. Jay

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by Tetto

Then don’t have children if you can’t afford them. People who have minimum wage jobs should not pump out 3-4 kids when they can barely financially support themselves.

So then you support providing poor families with birth control? Jay

[LMPA]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

This is a myth.

Connecticut has a net inward migration of white collar professionals. Those are the people who pay all the taxes. The outward migration is lower income people who don't pay a heck of a lot of tax. A Millennial Starbucks barista moving to the south isn't going to budge the needle and there are 10 people lined up for that Starbucks barista job.

Not a myth, have you looked at the 2015-2016 IRS statistics?

https://www.irs.gov/statistics/soi-t...migration-data

Almost 3 million in outward adjusted gross income is a lot of baristas.

White collar are not the only people contributing to the economy.

[JGBigGreen]

You are correct that renters don't pay property tax directly but paying it indirectly is still hitting their wallet is it not?

quote=JayCT;50801645]For you, a homeowner, it is. But most lower income families are renters and do not pay property taxes directly unless they own a car. And before you say it, they DO NOT need to own a car to live. All of Connecticut cities and their suburbs have pretty extensive systems of mass transit that poorer people can and do use. Again, I find taxing groceries to be obscene, particularly if, as you claim, it is minor. Talk about nickel and diming the taxpayer. Jay[/quote]

[in_newengland]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

If you are higher income and own a home, yep. If you rent and you're struggling to put food on the table for your family, taxing food is a very regressive tax.

Of course, in Connecticut, the gasoline tax is also a very regressive tax. Lower income people need to drive to work, too. Ditto the crazed auto property tax where lower income people are still paying big taxes on that Hyundai Accent they need to get to work.

(GeoffD usually says it better ) Yes, as a recent MA transplant, back in MA, groceries and clothing were tax exempt as they should be. The only time clothing was taxed was when it was above a certain limit--true excessive luxury items. But it's just common sense that food and clothing are necessities and not fair to low income people to tax them. BTW, groceries in general seem to be higher in CT.

Our property taxes were low due to Proposition 2 1/2 that capped them. That went into effect back in the 1970s IIRC. As for the schools in MA, in the rich towns, they are good and in the poor towns they are bad. Probably the same as in CT.

MA has a lot of dead cities same as CT, places where people are afraid to go. MA is Boston centric, meaning that all they care about is the city of Boston and its fancy suburbs. Boston gets priority in everything--new bridges, tunnels, they have public transportation, etc. Boston people barely know that the rest of the state even exists!

The rest of the state gets neglected and is left to molder and rot. There is no public transportation at all, roads are neglected, funding requests go ignored. (Can you tell that I am not from Boston? I come from WMass--CT River Valley, a place that Bostonians have never heard of.)

In the Boston area (the only part of the state that matters, supposedly) there is an inward migration from NYC and CA--people with BIG money-- while there is an outward migration of people who are less rich. The people who are leaving are not poor, they are just not able to afford a million dollar home. The Boston area is losing its native born, decent local residents and is gaining The Very Rich who tear down the older homes and build monstrosities. MA is losing the people who built it and who care about it.

MA does some smart things though, like EZ-Pass on the Mass Pike. It automatically calculates your toll and then bills you. They got rid of the over paid nepotism of toll takers and it's all done electronically now. If you are from out of state you get charged more too!

When people are talking about MA, they are usually speaking of Boston. The rest of the state is not like Boston. The rest of the state is struggling economically and struggling to be noticed and heard. It's as if FF County ran CT and rigged it so that everything was just for them. /my 2 cents.

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by JGBigGreen

You are correct that renters don't pay property tax directly but paying it indirectly is still hitting their wallet is it not?

quote=JayCT;50801645]For you, a homeowner, it is. But most lower income families are renters and do not pay property taxes directly unless they own a car. And before you say it, they DO NOT need to own a car to live. All of Connecticut cities and their suburbs have pretty extensive systems of mass transit that poorer people can and do use. Again, I find taxing groceries to be obscene, particularly if, as you claim, it is minor. Talk about nickel and diming the taxpayer. Jay

[/quote]

So? The rent paid by a person is based on market conditions, not whether you are taxed more or not. Hartford has high taxes while Farmington has low taxes, yet you pay a lot more to rent an apartment in Farmington than you do in Hartford.

Also note that homes in poorer areas will tend to cost less and have lower assessments so the taxes are lower even though the mill rate is high. A month or so ago I checked on home taxes in Hartford expecting them to be very high but they weren't as high as I thought they would be because their assessments were lower. Jay

[JayCT]

Originally Posted by in_newengland

(GeoffD usually says it better ) Yes, as a recent MA transplant, back in MA, groceries and clothing were tax exempt as they should be. The only time clothing was taxed was when it was above a certain limit--true excessive luxury items. But it's just common sense that food and clothing are necessities and not fair to low income people to tax them. BTW, groceries in general seem to be higher in CT.

It is funny you say that because I think this is more dependent on the town location verses the overall state. I was in a Newton, MA Stop & Shop and noticed the prices were higher than my Glastonbury store which is considered a pricier Stop & Shop. We noticed price differences between the Glastonbury store and their East Hartford store as well. I have seen price differences between their Fairfield store and Glastonbury as well with the Fairfield store being higher. People I know in Fairfield and Trumbull will shop at Bridgeport stores (North Main Street and Black Rock) over their closest store because there is a price difference. So I think it has more to do with the town the store is in than the state. Jay

[Tetto]

Originally Posted by JayCT

So then you support providing poor families with birth control? Jay

Sure, I’d be happy to pay for vasectomies and oopherectomies. How about a little personal responsibility and the understanding that minimum wage jobs are not amenable to supporting the American dream. Not rocket science.

[Vandy-bound]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

The 'burbs south of Nashville where you want to live are far higher than that.
Williamson County:
Sales tax (on everything) is 9.25%
Median household income $106K
Median home (house or condo) price: $427K

The mill rate in the unincorporated part of the county with zero services is $21.50
Franklin in town center: $31.066
Franklin, rest of town: $24.876
Brentwood: $24.90

A typical nothing special $500K single family home is paying $10K to $15K in property taxes. That's the math anywhere with no state income tax where college educated professionals live. You need to pay for the schools, roads, police/fire, trash pickup, water/sewer, etc somehow.

NO. This is absolutely not correct. Unless in the past 3 years the taxes have somehow skyrocketed--and a quick check of our area suggests not. We lived in the city of Brentwood. Our $500K house's property taxes the year we moved to CT were <$4000--IIRC, about $2800 sounds correct. I'd have to dig up our taxes to find the exact number, but it was FAR less than the $10-15K you suggest. Mill rates are one thing, the assessed value upon which those mill rates are used is quite another. Interestingly, because of those differences, individuals in the city of Nashville/Davidson county tend to pay slightly higher property taxes for homes that are valued the same.

Yes the sales tax in TN is very high, but honestly, some of the costs of goods and services was so much lower (trash, utilities, gas), that the amount we pay on comparable items here in CT hasn't changed--except for utilities where our costs have increased substantially. We are data junkies and have a spreadsheet we have kept over the past 15 years (multiple moves) showing us the changes.

You might also consider that the schools in Brentwood and Franklin and most (but not all) of Williamson County rank exceptionally well nationally--and can do that within a regional (county) school system. That has been one of our biggest frustrations with our move--what our son did in middle school was considered advanced high school here. Painting other areas of the country with a broad brush doesn't do well to actually debate the merits/pitfalls of the different states/cities.

[MrGompers]

Originally Posted by JayCT

So? The rent paid by a person is based on market conditions, not whether you are taxed more or not. Hartford has high taxes while Farmington has low taxes, yet you pay a lot more to rent an apartment in Farmington than you do in Hartford.

Also note that homes in poorer areas will tend to cost less and have lower assessments so the taxes are lower even though the mill rate is high. A month or so ago I checked on home taxes in Hartford expecting them to be very high but they weren't as high as I thought they would be because their assessments were lower. Jay

The higher rent in Farmington is a function of both plus less rental stock available. Even the dimmest person in CT knows that Farmington schools are better than Hartford and some are willing to pay for that (even as renters)