[mdovell]

Originally Posted by CTartist

We already have the CT law on the books that each town needs to have 10% affordable housing. It just needs to be enforced.
*

Right but that's also a problem.

To put it bluntly the state of CT is weak and to the private sector and many organizations it looks more like a group of towns, a confederacy of town rather than an actual state.

Let's break down some basics of internal controls.

1) There is no control over local taxation. Mass has prop 2 1/2. Taxes can still go up to a given point but then it has to be voted in. CA has prop 13. As a new CT resident I pay probably 3x the amount in local property taxes as what I would be paying in Mass.

2) There is no inspector general in CT. So if a contractor fails to perform or has some fraud, waste or abuse there's really no way of having an investigation.

3) there are no local procurement laws as mandated in the state. So Darian, West Hartford, New Haven and Scotland could have totally different laws. Companies don't want to see that. In Mass and in other states they have a law for towns to abide by so it creates a uniform standard. Contractors don't want to go place to place and try to find out who has what.

4) There's no central register, that is a place for towns to even post bids. Keep it simple and require a public posting. that way contractors find work and towns find suppliers

5) The debarment list hasn't been updated in years. Let's say a contractor exists in West Hartford and has a tax bill of $100,000. They bid on work in Danbury and win. Danbury has no idea that this owes taxes to West Hartford. They could owe the state as well or themselves.

https://www.ctdol.state.ct.us/wgwkstnd/wgdisbar.htm No updates in 3.5 years

https://www.courant.com/politics/gov...cfa-story.html

https://ctmirror.org/2020/11/16/no-b...ng-oversights/

https://www.courant.com/politics/gov...66u-story.html


No control over taxes or spending or who can win what contract. No one is realistically threatened or deterred by the state of CT because frankly it constantly appears weak and unable to be accountable to itself.

the comparable law in Mass is 40B. Take a look at how this works out
https://www.mass.gov/service-details...-committee-hac
here's the organization and the decision making process. When you have actual laws you have state departments that enforce them, make reports, suggestions and have actual legal rulings.

This isn't about big government but you have to have some form of ability of governance. If it's one of these light arbitrary recommendations with no teeth then it will continue to look like a joke.

Much of what has been discussed here deals more with the national issues that can't exactly be solved by everything on a state level. We can make the argument that everyone has to be sheltered but it doesn't mean you take a one million dollar house and rent it out for $500 a month. There's always going to be more affluent communities and higher ended homes. Form based code can go a long way in at least allowing for businesses but not changing the look of an area. Assessor dwelling units and in-law apartments can also help.

In some respect this is like debating gun control. Get people to enforce current laws before new laws are hyped up as a solution.

[Mike 75]

Originally Posted by CTartist

.
No they are not red herrings because there is a law on the books that says each town needs 10% affordable housing.

But you are correct............If they want to "desegregate" CT then Greenwich is way ahead of many towns and should be left alone for a very long time if that is indeed the premise.

1) There is an "affordable housing" CT LAW that states all towns must have 10% affordable housing.
2) This law does not state if the affordable housing needs to go to minorities.

1) Affordable housing and 2) Desegregating CT Towns from the cities are two different issues.

Let's take a look from the Census
Connecticut is.....79.7 white
Greenwich.............77.4 white (this is more DESEGREGATED than CT as a whole, leave Greenwich alone)
Darien...................91.0 white
New Canaan...........91.1
Wilton...................86.4
Westport................89.6
Weston..................88.4
Fairfield.................88.8
Easton...................95.3 (they should go after Easton first if they really want to desegregate CT)
Trumbull................84.4
Stratford................73.1 (this is more DESEGREGATED than CT as a whole, leave Stratford alone)
Milford...................87.2

Originally Posted by CTartist

He specifically called out GREENWICH which has more minorities than CT over all and BTW a lot more affordable housing then just about every town in the
1-95/Merritt/Metro North corridor. The New Haven mayor lumped Greenwich with Woodbridge also.....really?

Greenwich............5.35 affordable housing with more minorities than the CT average.
Darien...................3.58
New Canaan...........2.94
Wilton....................3.57
Westport................3.63
Weston..................0.22
Fairfield.................2.47
Easton...................0.63
Trumbull................4.68
Stratford................6.39
Milford...................5.31
Woodbridge.........1.24
https://portal.ct.gov/-/media/DOH/20...for-online.pdf

CTartist, thank you for this data. Its very interesting, as it shows a weak correlation between affordable housing and diversity. The mantra has been, more affordable housing results in more diversity, but that is not necessarily the case. Weston has virtually no affordable housing, yet is more diverse than Fairfield. Milford has substantially more more affordable housing than Wilton, yet is less diverse.

[tbanks3]

Originally Posted by kidyankee764

Having “racist implications” is wholly different than being “discriminatory toward certain races”. The former is the unintended effect of, while the latter is outright racist by design.

I also don’t believe that socioeconomic classism automatically equals racism. We need to be careful with that R word.

I understand your point, but something can be racist even if you don’t think those were the intentions. The outcome is the same regardless and we can learn lessons from choices in the past, and correct them. If a race or group is basically uniformly affected by certain laws, practices, etc. then we need to address it.

It’s fair if people don’t think these policies will be “the thing” that totally desegregates CT economically and racially. My point is that each policy and decision we make as a society can still be a step in the right direction. Change will come with some cost though.

[pramre]

Originally Posted by tbanks3

I understand your point, but something can be racist even if you don’t think those were the intentions. The outcome is the same regardless and we can learn lessons from choices in the past, and correct them. If a race or group is basically uniformly affected by certain laws, practices, etc. then we need to address it.

It’s fair if people don’t think these policies will be “the thing” that totally desegregates CT economically and racially. My point is that each policy and decision we make as a society can still be a step in the right direction. Change will come with some cost though.

To pull together what CTArtist, Steve and others are saying: As long as a person of any race is free to buy/rent in a town, why should the state mandate that the town needs X% of minorities by race/class/sexual_orientation(Is that next?) ?

As long as there is fairness and no discrimination, Desegregate CT sounds like social engineering. What purpose does it serve? Does every town need to reflect the national averages of race/socioeconomic stats perfectly ?

I am technically a minority and had zero trouble with my home purchase process in Darien so far. Was it redlined in the past - may be, problem doesn't seem to exist now.

[Beeker2211]

Pamre,

Are you saying that exclusionary based zoning designed to keep people out isn't social engineering?

Oh my...

[mdovell]

The framing of this can be worse than the issue itself. Way back in the day when Boston had to desegregated busing it made it appear as if they were racist people arguing that they didn't want their children going to school with minorities. March of the reality is that many of the schools are neighborhood schools and their being bossed further out. Localization next to education is a selling point so if you tell people they can't send a kids locally it's going to have ramifications in housing.

The other thing to keep in mind is that if we throw the concept of zoning all the way we're not always paying attention to the lines. Water lines, sewer lines, electrical lines, natural gas lines, internet connectivity etc. There are actual legal limitations under Board of Health rules about how many people is septic tank can reasonably accommodate. There are also fire codes that limit how many people can live in a dwelling. And of course there are building codes with respect to the amount of framing required to support weight.

I'd highly encourage people to read the cases in Massachusetts about developments that did and did not happen. In many respects all that's really required is just some form of deed restriction that prevents the Rams from going up above a given percentage. If you have rents linked to CPI that could be just enough to say it keeps up with inflation and is Affordable. At least in Mass though it's better to work alongside a developer rather than against them and end up seeing anything being put up.

[Route7toRoute202]

Great, a bill passed today out of the committee. Thanks Will, way to represent your constituents.

[Stylo]

Where'd you get those numbers, CTArtist?

I did a double take, because City Data says 80.7% white for Milford.

[Stylo]

Originally Posted by Beeker2211

Pamre,

Are you saying that exclusionary based zoning designed to keep people out isn't social engineering?

Oh my...

Or maybe rural towns don't want to be dense?

Not everything is about social/race engineering.

[CTartist]

Originally Posted by pramre

I am technically a minority and had zero trouble with my home purchase process in Darien so far. Was it redlined in the past - may be, problem doesn't seem to exist now.

Decades ago Darien was considered a "sundown town" and a movie was even made about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentleman%27s_Agreement

This is an interesting article because it is from 1986 so you can get a a different perspective from people who lived closer to the time period when the movie "Gentleman's Agreement" was made.
https://www.nytimes.com/1986/01/24/n...iced-past.html