Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I appreciate your measured response. Some additional thoughts below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annuvin
I don't know the race of the protesters in this particular rally nor do I care. The point is that there is a major difference between protesting in a manner that does not impede the rest of society and overrunning private businesses and blocking highways - Both of which are much different than the widespread arson, mayhem and looting we saw in Ferguson following the decision not to charge Officer Wilson.
As for the "welfare" comment, it is a valid observation that most people with gainful employment do not have idle time mid-week to stage a protest at the local mall. By extension, this means that those who take part in these protests en masse are likely students or those living on social assistance of some kind.
This protest was on a Saturday. I know that other protests have taken place on weekdays, but the biggest ones have been on weekends, like in NY a week ago. These protests are different than the ones involving looting and mayhem, but one needs only look at this thread to see that there are people who lump them all together.
I don't know about the Garner case, but Brown's actions certainly did warrant the police using lethal force. The only "conflicting accounts" I heard in relation to this case were made by Brown's supporters who committed perjury in front of the Grand Jury. It is a tragedy that a young man lost his life, however it was his decisions alone that resulted in the lethal confrontation that killed him.
Perjurers weren't limited to Brown supporters in that grand jury process. Look up Sandra McElroy. His decisions certainly played a role in what happened, but only a couple of people in the world, if that, might be qualified to say it was his decisions alone that killed him.
The killer in NY was just that - a killer. In addition to the two officers he murdered, he apparently also killed his girlfriend. And he had nothing to do with these protesters.
Sorry, this sounds like he was indeed planning his own form of violent protest and inciting others to do the same.
Yes, it does sound like that, but it doesn't change what I said.
The problem is that the race card is played so often now that the public has become jaded to the point where legitimate claims of racism are not taken seriously anymore. Combine this with the kind of behavior witnessed in Ferguson following a justified police shooting, and most of us start thinking that "peeling clothes off with high pressure fire hoses, bring[ing] out the dogs, more tear gas, more rubber bullets, [and] crack[ing] a few skulls" is exactly the kind of "solution" we need.
I agree with the first part of what you said, but the race card is not only played by one side of the political spectrum or population in general. There is plenty of racially charged rhetoric that flies in from all directions, and one would almost have to be willfully blind to see otherwise. As far as the second part, violence begets more violence. Judging people based on the actions of others that look like them can lead to bad results. That's how this got rolling in the first place.
If we just start peeling clothes off with high pressure fire hoses, bring out the dogs, more tear gas, more rubber bullets, crack a few skulls and heaven forbid give someone's smart phone a bath maybe these plebs will stay home.
I don't know the race of the protesters in this particular rally nor do I care. The point is that there is a major difference between protesting in a manner that does not impede the rest of society and overrunning private businesses and blocking highways - Both of which are much different than the widespread arson, mayhem and looting we saw in Ferguson following the decision not to charge Officer Wilson.
....That is the point. Protesting is not supposed to be convenient to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annuvin
As for the "welfare" comment, it is a valid observation that most people with gainful employment do not have idle time mid-week to stage a protest at the local mall. By extension, this means that those who take part in these protests en masse are likely students or those living on social assistance of some kind.
No, the welfare comments are just racism mixed with respectability politics (which is pure cold-blooded racism).
Did they loot the mall? It looked peaceful but I haven't seen any news on it except this.
And yes, there will still be criminals for the police to catch regardless of the need to update how people are handled before they are convicted. That is why they have a job. But, decent police officers don't like out of control hot head partners either. It's not us against them like you're trying to paint it. Lot's of officers agree with the change, cameras, and the ability to call out a bad cop. They don't want to be represented by hot head cops either.
How about the people who work in the mall? I bet plenty of them work on commission or earn what they do with partial salary/commission. This was the last big day before Christmas.
How many of them were counting on high sales? Than their store shuts down.
When stores are shut down it hurts them, they're not exactly making big bucks to begin with if you're working retail in a mall on Saturday.
What about the negative impact to the economy? Lost revenue.
There is nothing wrong with protesting. But disrupting shoppers, blocking traffic isn't the way to go about it.
When I was kid they were going to start flying the Concord jet into JFK. People in the area didn't want it due to noise, so some of them got the brilliant idea to block the highways with their cars on the parkways around the airport. All it did was p**s off those who missed their flights.
Responses in this thread speak to the reason people feel the need to protest. Some points:
- Per the article, the police chief stated that there were no injuries or incidents of violence or theft.
- There is nothing in this article to suggest that the protesters are 'thugs', committing 'mayhem', and 'collecting welfare'. Rather these are stereotypes that many people hold about blacks. The 'mooching off mommy and daddy' bit seems to refer that the pictures show that most of the demonstrators were white.
- While it is easy to say that people should just suck it up about stereotypes and animosity against them, and people do that for the most part, when those stereotypes appear systemic and lead to incidents that involve unnecessary deaths, it is much harder to ignore. While Brown and Garner may have made poor decisions about engaging in criminal behaviors, there are also cases like John Crawford's, where a man who had done nothing other than pick up an item from a store shelf was gunned down, a victim of the stereotypes people are protesting.
- The decisions Brown and Garner made did not warrant death. In the Brown case, it is hard to know what the details are because of conflicting accounts, though the Garner case is pretty clear what happened because of the video evidence. That both officers were cleared of charges is what protesters see as part of the systemic stereotyping. If the guy who killed the two officers in Brooklyn had been taken alive, is there any doubt that he would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law? In truth, the prosecutor in the Brown case didn't do Officer Wilson any favors because it looks like the grand jury inquiry was a major whitewash job, so while Wilson was cleared of charges, he can never really be exonerated. That's on the prosecutor.
- The killer in NY was just that - a killer. In addition to the two officers he murdered, he apparently also killed his girlfriend. And he had nothing to do with these protesters. Was he influenced by the raised awareness of police violence? Possibly. But somebody who did what he did (capped off by killing himself) was not in his right mind, and does not represent all people who have an axe to grind about recent events.
While in any crowd, you will have knuckleheads with their own selfish agendas, there are many, many people who are sincere in their concerns about the consequences of systemic racism. Just because you don't safe their concern doesn't mean their concerns aren't real.
And I'm not sure that 'peeling clothes off with high pressure fire hoses, bring out the dogs, more tear gas, more rubber bullets, crack a few skulls' is really going to lead to a solution.
I watched a lot of the protest on local news feed yesterday. It seems to me that everyone, police and protestors, did a good job. Part of the reason for that was because there was good communication among all parties.
There are two things which disturb me about the protest. The first was the illegality of the act. I believe that in the United States your rights end whenever they infringe upon my rights. And the protestors were deliberately infringing on the property owners' rights.
The second sad and frightening thing that disturbed me was that when the protestors were asked to leave they began to chant, "What do we want? Cops. How do we want them? Dead." I don't know in what rational person's mind a homicidal mass threat and advocacy of murder of all police will promote a peaceful resolution or any good will for the cause. Those aren't the words of thinking, caring people. Those are crazy mob rule words and that kind of madness is what leads to the dog and fire hose "solution."
Particularly chilling to me was that while they were chanting this crude and ugly wish it was during the time that the two police officers in New York were shot. If both sides don't make an effort to see each other as fellow human beings with family this isn't going to happen.
Both sides of the issue need to take responsibility for not escalating these potentially dangerous situations.
Well the people in Detroit are complain to the UN about wanting free water as a human right, lets give it to them at 150PSI plus. Maybe they’ll get that laundry done and a bath at the same time.
These so called people still believe in Santa Claus,NOTHING will change thru this choas caused by these protesters.
Most of the protesters are probably the reason for the mess in America.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
