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Yeah, it works for everybody but people with dark skin.
Of course it does, unless you think your "special" from anyone else, and have an attitude. What ever color you are, you need to be smart enough to pick the fights you can win. A "one" on "one" fight on the scene is not one your going to win. You don't have to participate in a confrontation, nor win it. You can chose to take it to another battlefield, with better odds. That's how you win wars. Martyrs win nothing.
I'm amazed that City-Data allows these police-bashing threads to exist. Nothing positive comes out of them, and I doubt they would allow a City-data or moderator-bashing thread.
Anybody can be bashed here except the moderators and owners of City-Data, according to the TOS, provided it is done within reasonable bounds of civil discourse. The supposition that the police are a special class immune from criticism is the first symptom of a Police State.
Most people through their daily life encounters, would have no way of knowing that brutal police excesses occur, except through public discourse such as this forum, and hence, something positive does come out of them.
Let me pose a question to you. The ACLU issues little cards that you can carry, that explain your rights in a police confrontation. Next time you see a police officer doing public relations duty at an event, ask him for one of those cards. See how eager the police are, to inform you of the law that protects your rights. See if the police advise you to exercise your right to state your name and your address and then shut up.
My advice on dealing with the police is based on common sense.
If a guy that has been given a legal monopoly on the use of force by the state / government tells you to do something. Then listen and comply with it.
Especially considering that he has a firearm and the training to use it, along with a high probability of him lying if or when he uses the gun and he uses it in a manner not consistent with what is allowed.
But most importantly as I stated above: listen and comply. And the likelihood of getting shot is less than 1/1000th of a percent.
If after being arrested, whether you are guilty of a crime or not and/or if you feel you were not treated fairly by the officer.
Secure and talk to the only person in the world that would realistically give a flying F at that point and when he does care *it is only because he is billing out his concern at about $300 an hour. That entity would be known as an attorney.
*And that refers to actually securing an attorney on your own. If you have a public defender, then practically speaking: it's already over prior to jury selection.
Of course it does, unless you think your "special" from anyone else, and have an attitude. What ever color you are, you need to be smart enough to pick the fights you can win.
I don't have dark skin or an attitude. That doesn't necessarily save you.
Since you brought up picking fights I'll describe another encounter. Cop pulls me over. I was in a very good mood again, so not alarmed or worried. Shines the big ol searchlight on me. I wait. I figure I'm supposed to sit there until told different, so that is what I do. Seems to take forever though. He finally appears at the passenger side and bellows "hands on the steering wheel!". Scared the crap out of me, and I quickly comply. He comes around the driver side, opens the door, grabs me by the front of my shirt, hauls me out, and shoves me against the side of the truck.
I'm a very mild mannered guy. Non confrontational. Don't pick fights. But something about getting manhandled in that matter with no provocation triggered something in my brain. I was a microsecond from taking him down. It wasn't conscious. And as soon as realized what I was about to do, I shut it down. But what if I hadn't?
This guy pulled my wallet out of my pocket and proceeded to discharge its contents onto the hood. He took my license back to his car and ran it. When he found out everything was ok, he mellowed considerably and asked me what I was doing in town. Though he didn't apologize it was obvious that he felt bad about his extreme behavior, and I was fine with that. Happy ending.
BUT WTF?! I mean seriously, what the hell was going on? Ok, he was in a bad mood for some reason. But what if I'd really snapped and taken him down? Would I still be in jail now or would I be dead? Why in the hell is there a guy with a badge and a gun running around creating confrontations where none need to exist?
In these threads there is a lot of jumping to conclusions. IME most cops are courteous and fine people, at least when I talk to them. But some are really out looking for fights, at least some of the time. I have no doubt that the cops themselves are to blame for a good number of violent encounters. And I'm also sure that many times they are not.
It would be nice if the cops had some interest in policing their own, but they take the exact opposite stance. And if you don't have specific and solid evidence that disproves their story, then their word is gospel.
anybody can be bashed here except the moderators and owners of city-data, according to the tos, ropvided it is done within reasonable bounds of discourse. the supposition that the police are a special class immune from criticism is the first symptom of a police state.
I don't have dark skin or an attitude. That doesn't necessarily save you.
Since you brought up picking fights I'll describe another encounter. Cop pulls me over. I was in a very good mood again, so not alarmed or worried. Shines the big ol searchlight on me. I wait. I figure I'm supposed to sit there until told different, so that is what I do. Seems to take forever though. He finally appears at the passenger side and bellows "hands on the steering wheel!". Scared the crap out of me, and I quickly comply. He comes around the driver side, opens the door, grabs me by the front of my shirt, hauls me out, and shoves me against the side of the truck.
I'm a very mild mannered guy. Non confrontational. Don't pick fights. But something about getting manhandled in that matter with no provocation triggered something in my brain. I was a microsecond from taking him down. It wasn't conscious. And as soon as realized what I was about to do, I shut it down. But what if I hadn't?
This guy pulled my wallet out of my pocket and proceeded to discharge its contents onto the hood. He took my license back to his car and ran it. When he found out everything was ok, he mellowed considerably and asked me what I was doing in town. Though he didn't apologize it was obvious that he felt bad about his extreme behavior, and I was fine with that. Happy ending.
If that was the case, you should have at least filed assault charges, and let the Law handle it. If it happened as you say, he was clearly wrong, and should have to answer for his behavior. If you had a phone you could have called 911 and told them you had been assaulted by a Policeman, you could have asked the Cop to call a Supervisor to the scene, also. There where legal remedies. Inaction justifies the behavior.
Happy ending for you, but maybe not for the next guy, because there where no consequences for his bad behavior. Sometimes everyone has to do their part, even if it stinks.
Happy ending for you, but maybe not for the next guy, because there where no consequences for his bad behavior. Sometimes everyone has to do their part, even if it stinks.
Yes, I know all that. But the thing is, he really did seem remorseful. I mean his attitude changed 180 degrees. I told him I was on my way to find a place to camp for the night, and he told me where I could go and that I could stay there as long as I wanted so long as he didn't get any complaints from nearby residents. I wasn't in any mood to get him in trouble at that point.
Anybody can be bashed here except the moderators and owners of City-Data, according to the TOS, provided it is done within reasonable bounds of civil discourse. The supposition that the police are a special class immune from criticism is the first symptom of a Police State.
Most people through their daily life encounters, would have no way of knowing that brutal police excesses occur, except through public discourse such as this forum, and hence, something positive does come out of them.
Let me pose a question to you. The ACLU issues little cards that you can carry, that explain your rights in a police confrontation. Next time you see a police officer doing public relations duty at an event, ask him for one of those cards. See how eager the police are, to inform you of the law that protects your rights. See if the police advise you to exercise your right to state your name and your address and then shut up.
It isn't the job of the police to inform you of the law, that is YOUR responsibility.
People who expect others to inform them of their rights and how to exercise them are part of the problem.
Why would a police officer give you a card issued by the ACLU? If the ACLU now part of the police or any government agency? Do you even know what the ACLU is?
Never accepting responsibility will only hasten your next "encounter" with the police. Amazingly, most people in the USA never "encounter" the police. Why is that?
I don't have dark skin or an attitude. That doesn't necessarily save you.
Since you brought up picking fights I'll describe another encounter. Cop pulls me over. I was in a very good mood again, so not alarmed or worried. Shines the big ol searchlight on me. I wait. I figure I'm supposed to sit there until told different, so that is what I do. Seems to take forever though. He finally appears at the passenger side and bellows "hands on the steering wheel!". Scared the crap out of me, and I quickly comply. He comes around the driver side, opens the door, grabs me by the front of my shirt, hauls me out, and shoves me against the side of the truck.
I'm a very mild mannered guy. Non confrontational. Don't pick fights. But something about getting manhandled in that matter with no provocation triggered something in my brain. I was a microsecond from taking him down. It wasn't conscious. And as soon as realized what I was about to do, I shut it down. But what if I hadn't?
This guy pulled my wallet out of my pocket and proceeded to discharge its contents onto the hood. He took my license back to his car and ran it. When he found out everything was ok, he mellowed considerably and asked me what I was doing in town. Though he didn't apologize it was obvious that he felt bad about his extreme behavior, and I was fine with that. Happy ending.
BUT WTF?! I mean seriously, what the hell was going on? Ok, he was in a bad mood for some reason. But what if I'd really snapped and taken him down? Would I still be in jail now or would I be dead? Why in the hell is there a guy with a badge and a gun running around creating confrontations where none need to exist?
In these threads there is a lot of jumping to conclusions. IME most cops are courteous and fine people, at least when I talk to them. But some are really out looking for fights, at least some of the time. I have no doubt that the cops themselves are to blame for a good number of violent encounters. And I'm also sure that many times they are not.
It would be nice if the cops had some interest in policing their own, but they take the exact opposite stance. And if you don't have specific and solid evidence that disproves their story, then their word is gospel.
Very glad you shared your story. Hope more of us do. I've had some horror stories.
In my situation I resisted fighting back even though I was attacked. But I did protect my teeth from hitting the concrete so I got a resisting arrest charge (judge threw it out later).
Why should we have to be subject to that type of treatment? Why should we be subject to injury or worse because of the actions of another individual? In any other engagement you would have the right to protect yourself.
Very glad you shared your story. Hope more of us do. I've had some horror stories.
In my situation I resisted fighting back even though I was attacked. But I did protect my teeth from hitting the concrete so I got a resisting arrest charge (judge threw it out later).
Why should we have to be subject to that type of treatment? Why should we be subject to injury or worse because of the actions of another individual? In any other engagement you would have the right to protect yourself.
No one should be subject to that kind of abuse, and I don't advocate not doing anything about it or fighting back. What I emphasize is picking your battleground when you decide to fight back. Same rules cover every type of confrontation, including Wars. Being aggressive when they have the advantage is fruitless, and presents you in a bad light right up front. Being knowledgeable, polite, and firm gives you equal ground if you take the battle back to them when you have the advantage. Pick your fights and your ground. Don't pick one you know you can't win on the spot.
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