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Actually there have been 994 mass shootings in the USA in the past 1004 days with 1,260 deaths A Mass shooting is defined as one in which 4 or more people were shot. we also had over 14,000 murders in 2013 and 480,360 arrests for violent crimes in the same year and that reflects a substantial drop in crime since 2009.
I have a suggestion. You wanna go to the Place de La Republique, stand in the corner and read this aloud? They love to hear those stats.
The government shutting down any house of worship would be a flagrant violation of the Constitution.
And for those who also fear the Qu'ran, are you aware that Thomas Jefferson owned one (which today is housed in the Library of Congress)? Our founding fathers Jefferson, Madison, and Adams were quite aware of Muslims when they were forming the young nation that was to become the nation of quivering cowards we seem to have become. Jefferson's interest with Islam grew when he was America's ambassador to France.
The Founders were joined in their desire to codify religious liberty in the grand experiment by Americans whose names aren't as well know. An example is John Leland, an early leader of American Baptists in Massachusetts. He agreed with Jefferson on the question of Muslims becoming part of America. He had personal experience of Baptists facing discrimination and even denunciation from more established sects of Protestant Christianity, much as Roman Catholics were also often belittled by more mainstream religions, even in my lifetime.
In an a review of the excellent book Thomas Jefferson's Qu'ran by Denise A. Spellberg, R.B. Bernstein (author of The Education of John Adams) writes that taking his personal experience to heart, John "Leland opposed discrimination against any faith not part of the favored range of Protestant sects and denominations – including Muslims."
That this is even being seriously discussed is heartbreaking.
However..... I do think we should restrict immigration and visas of those coming from hotbeds of radicalism or places with a strong anti-American/anti-Western Civilization sentiment until things cool down or we come up with a far better vetting system than we currently have. Who we have, we have, and I am not prepared to toss the 1st amendment rights of our citizens out the window, but that doesn't mean we need to open ourselves up to risks by immigrants. I also think if a non-citizen displays affiliation with a group that is anti-American, breaks the law (no matter how minute), or engages in suspicious activities then they need to be immediately removed from the country after a QUICK hearing, with the standard of "more likely than not" as opposed to "beyond reasonable doubt" standard of evidence.
That sounds fair to me. Reasonable doubt is for citizens.
No preaching at mosques? What do you think he is doing?
Friday prayers in Islam is anything but prayers in the sense you understand.
The Friday Obligatory prayers are exactly the same as any other day. Except begining about 30 minutes before the Friday Asr prayer the Imam is to give a short Kitbah (Sermon) it is to be related to local concerns and the Imam should give references from the Qur'an and can if need also from the Ahadith to support his Posistion.
For those of us that are Sunni we are under no obligation to agree with him or even believe him. A Muslim is actually supposed to questionall things and never believe anything without verifying it from our own sources. We alone are responsible for what we believe and carry the obligation to seek verification of all things we are not to follow any religious lead blindly. We have no ordained clergy (except the Shi'a do) and no hierarchy of clergy. Every Muslim is clergy and we are all equal.
But we do have our share of sheeple that are too darn lazy to get off their butts and think for them self. they become easy prey for the evil ones who use religion to control the masses. which is a very grave sin as we are not to follow anyone blindly and each of us will be held accountable for our beliefs, actions and thoughts, we do not have the luxury of pleading "we were misled" it is our responsibility to question and not allow our self to be misled. A Muslim who commits an act of terrorism is guilty of his own action even if he was lied to and tricked into it. We each are responsible to verify all things before acting.
NO of course they should not be shut down but they should be watched in case what is going on in there is dangerous to the public. That also goes for any religion, cult or group.
The government shutting down any house of worship would be a flagrant violation of the Constitution.
And for those who also fear the Qu'ran, are you aware that Thomas Jefferson owned one (which today is housed in the Library of Congress)? Our founding fathers Jefferson, Madison, and Adams were quite aware of Muslims when they were forming the young nation that was to become the nation of quivering cowards we seem to have become. Jefferson's interest with Islam grew when he was America's ambassador to France.
The Founders were joined in their desire to codify religious liberty in the grand experiment by Americans whose names aren't as well know. An example is John Leland, an early leader of American Baptists in Massachusetts. He agreed with Jefferson on the question of Muslims becoming part of America. He had personal experience of Baptists facing discrimination and even denunciation from more established sects of Protestant Christianity, much as Roman Catholics were also often belittled by more mainstream religions, even in my lifetime.
In an a review of the excellent book Thomas Jefferson's Qu'ran by Denise A. Spellberg, R.B. Bernstein (author of The Education of John Adams) writes that taking his personal experience to heart, John "Leland opposed discrimination against any faith not part of the favored range of Protestant sects and denominations – including Muslims."
Are you even reading the posts before you or do you just like to bloviate? You can post to this to half a dozen other threads. BTW, I have a copy of Communist Manifesto too.
With all respect, I'd like to ask something from the members who voted to keep the mosques open. Would you change your vote if, heaven forbid, a child, sibling, or a parent of yours had been killed by Muslim terrorists? I'm not picking a fight here, just being curious if there is a limit to your tolerance.
For the record, I was born in Hungary. For 150 years Hungary and its people was occupied, burned, enslaved, raped and killed by the Turks until the country was liberated by the Christian Crusaders. Back then, the Turks were not terrorist, just ordinary peace-loving Muslims, the Sultans, their salves, and their soldiers.
With all respect, I'd like to ask something from you. If you where Turkish, and a Christian Crusader, had killed a Parent or Child of yours, would you try to close all Christian Churches? What would be the "limit" of your Hate?
You use the word "Tolerance" but the scope of closing "ALL" Churches of a certain Religion is beyond the use of a word like Tolerance. It would have to be driven by Hate, for you to ask a response to what started 150 years ago. I am also well aware that people from your part of the World carry grudges and hates for those who have done them wrong and pass it down through Generations to keep the flame of Hate burning. .
I have a suggestion. You wanna go to the Place de La Republique, stand in the corner and read this aloud? They love to hear those stats.
I suspect many have already heard those stats, the PEW report is pretty much world wide. I agree at the moment most people in France will doubt the validity of it.
,I can understand that. every person who is a victim has a right to feel anger and it is understandable to feel hatred towards all people connected in any way to the perpetrator. When I was injured back in the days of Vietnam, for a very long time I hated all Vietnamese and blamed all of them for my pain and suffering. It took a long time to come to understand most Vietnamese are very wonderful people and I am proud to have a Vietnamese son-in-law.
The Friday Obligatory prayers are exactly the same as any other day. Except begining about 30 minutes before the Friday Asr prayer the Imam is to give a short Kitbah (Sermon) it is to be related to local concerns and the Imam should give references from the Qur'an and can if need also from the Ahadith to support his Posistion.
For those of us that are Sunni we are under no obligation to agree with him or even believe him. A Muslim is actually supposed to questionall things and never believe anything without verifying it from our own sources. We alone are responsible for what we believe and carry the obligation to seek verification of all things we are not to follow any religious lead blindly. We have no ordained clergy (except the Shi'a do) and no hierarchy of clergy. Every Muslim is clergy and we are all equal.
But we do have our share of sheeple that are too darn lazy to get off their butts and think for them self. they become easy prey for the evil ones who use religion to control the masses. which is a very grave sin as we are not to follow anyone blindly and each of us will be held accountable for our beliefs, actions and thoughts, we do not have the luxury of pleading "we were misled" it is our responsibility to question and not allow our self to be misled. A Muslim who commits an act of terrorism is guilty of his own action even if he was lied to and tricked into it. We each are responsible to verify all things before acting.
Seems we have more of the "Sheeple" than Muslims do. Seems we also have more of the people that don't verify, and just act, and then blame everyone else when it goes wrong.
A Muslim who commits an act of terrorism is guilty of his own action even if he was lied to and tricked into it. We each are responsible to verify all things before acting.
Nobody has to be “tricked”. One reason the call to arms has been so effective is that there are specific, nonnegotiable passages in the Koran asking Muslims to do all sort of things on their own, many of them violent. No trick required. Look at this:
"Among the most important religious obligations is enjoining good and forbidding evil. Allah the Exalted states in the Noble Quran:
“There has to be a nation among you summoning to the good, bidding what is right, and forbidding what is wrong, it is they who are the felicitous” (Ale Imran:104).
This is a can of worms. Anybody can wake up in the morning and go about “forbidding” what is wrong. People have been killed over this. In the hands of a capable orator, he can whip up people to commit all sorts of atrocities.
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