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Even if I were a DMV employee I would not ever think of asking a Marine, active or retired, to take off his hat because of respect and not wanting to get my ass kicked.
Yes, why should they be expected to follow the law?
Yet again ... YOUR OPINION. Maybe you have some court case. I seem to remember something about a "right" in the Constitution about gay marriage.
Obfuscation. While I have no knowledge of what actually happened at the DMV (nor do you for that matter) it is YOU who are barking up the wrong tree on this. You have made assumptions ... example "Those people at the DMV have ZERO to do with legislation" ... hmmm ... they vote don't they? So much for ZERO. "They are working at an often thankless job." Maybe to you but obviously not to them ... they stay employed. "Then they have to deal with yahoos" ... do you know who the yahoo's were? Obviously not since you are being derogatory about them.
HISTORY LESSON
A yahoo is the name given to the supply wagon drivers in the old west. They were the hero's who brought in all the outside supplies to the land-locked settlers. They were exceedingly well liked and respected.
I stand by my comment about your opinion. Additionally I am growing weary of your attempt to create/continue a fight.
El Nox
No, not opinion.
Baseball caps are not religious items. FACT.
In a very concrete manner, the DMV workers have ZERO to do with legislation just as you and I do not (unless you are a representative of some type) outside of our votes. You know exactly what I am talking about.
I don't know about you or where you live but here in Pennsylvania the DMV is rarely a happy place filled with butterflies and unicorns. DMV workers have to follow rules that may not make sense to the general public - because that is their job - and be verbally beaten up by the public when they don't like what the laws say. A yahoo is someone who makes a fuss over nothing instead of going about the proper channels to complain.
Growing weary? Hit that little ignore button. Quite easy.
Yet again ... YOUR OPINION. Maybe you have some court case. I seem to remember something about a "right" in the Constitution about gay marriage.
Obfuscation. While I have no knowledge of what actually happened at the DMV (nor do you for that matter) it is YOU who are barking up the wrong tree on this. You have made assumptions ... example "Those people at the DMV have ZERO to do with legislation" ... hmmm ... they vote don't they? So much for ZERO. "They are working at an often thankless job." Maybe to you but obviously not to them ... they stay employed. "Then they have to deal with yahoos" ... do you know who the yahoo's were? Obviously not since you are being derogatory about them.
HISTORY LESSON
A yahoo is the name given to the supply wagon drivers in the old west. They were the hero's who brought in all the outside supplies to the land-locked settlers. They were exceedingly well liked and respected.
I stand by my comment about your opinion. Additionally I am growing weary of your attempt to create/continue a fight.
El Nox
I'm not trying to argue but I haven't seen where you have said why your opinion is as it is for this mans behavior...is it just because he's an ex-marine? In other words do you defend the right of anyone to harass DMV employees to break the law and let them wear a baseball hat in their pics, or just military? Is it just baseball caps or any hat? If this were a 20 year old college student insisting on being allowed to wear his Dodgers cap, would you defend him? Just struggling to find your reasoning because I haven't seen you give real reasons for your opinion.
And I do not take it like that ... although another poster does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
I haven't seen where you have said why your opinion is as it is for this mans behavior...is it just because he's an ex-marine?
No. And if you remember a previous post, I so stated along with extolling the virtues of the Corps, which I was never a member.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
In other words do you defend the right of anyone to harass DMV employees to break the law
As I said I said above, I was not there. Harass ... who knows? Was there intercourse ... yes. Break the law ... now we are really into semantics and the very crux of the issue. In claiming he had the right to wear the cap because of his religious conviction got the ball rolling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
let them wear a baseball hat in their pics, or just military?
If the issue was solely about a baseball cap, then I would have had nothing to say. However, once the fellow brought the subject of other religious headwear, that is when the issue changed. What I may or may not believe what constitutes religious headgear is not the issue. I read multiple posts on different forums on this board regarding religious head-gear, facial coverings and the like and it always boils down to what the individual religious beliefs are regarding that piece of cranial covering. I think that LE folks, or anyone else who requires an ID to confirm just who it is they have in front of them is ... should be able to readily do so. Legislators made the law and provided for exceptions. Doesn't that define the word "loophole"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
Is it just baseball caps or any hat?
Operative words here are baseball caps and hat. That was not the issue that the Marine brought up. The Marine was in essence claiming discrimination over head covering. He also raised the question of what is the definition of religious head covering. This is indeed a valid point. The courts won't touch this one and neither will the legislators. It is a can of worms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
If this were a 20 year old college student insisting on being allowed to wear his Dodgers cap, would you defend him?
If all this "20 year old college student" wanted to do was wear the cap, then the answer is obvious. Now let us go to the extreme if this kid (I assume we agree that it would be a kid) wanted to claim that it was part of his 'Dodger guru' cult dogma that he wear it. Now the issue is just as clouded as is the case of the Marine. Now we get to sit in judgment to determine just what is and isn't a religion. Earlier in this thread there was mention of the pasta strainer hat. I went on line and found that New Zealand recognized that religion. Lord have mercy (does this show any bias on my part)? No ... I do not want to sit in judgment as I would probably fall off the bench laughing at all the crap people claim for religion. Now how about a Druid? Satanic Cults? I could but won't go on. So back to subject ... with the information you gave, not only no, but hell no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl
Just struggling to find your reasoning because I haven't seen you give real reasons for your opinion.
Thank you for asking a legitimate and unemotional question. Some people just want to make noise and argue.
I wonder why some people seem to get worked up over some inocuous policy or exceptions.
So certain religious or spiritual headgear is allowed, but things like baseball caps are not. Whoop dee doo, what's the big crying deal? How did I get through over 40 years of living in California and not give 2 rats about this policy? And I'm a military veteran.
I don't have any religious headgear. And I do wear baseball caps often out in public (and even to the DMV). But if the policy is to take my hat off, then I'm taking my bloody hat off.
The way some are crying about this you'd think some egregious human rights violations were occurring.
Read carefully and don't try to put your words in my mouth which, as you say "I can see some possible problems with".
If you are going to say that at least you should be able to clarify what you did say. Otherwise I am not sure why you are still arguing.
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Yes, why should they be expected to follow the law?
