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Which is why they should rescind the ban on smoking in bars. A bar owner should be able to decide. Maybe just make the bars that want to allow smoking become private clubs. And ban smoking everywhere else where the public has access, including outside public spaces like sidewalks.
I don't live there, so no dog in this fight. But if they're going to ban anything (while walking) please let it be using a smart phone. That will save more injuries, and possible lives, than less smoke ever will.
Didn't one town just across the Hudson River from NYC in New Jersey(per what I read online), ban texting and/or cell/smartphone usage while walking anyway a few years ago? I can sorta see the purpose of that ban, since many using their phone and walking become oblivious of their surroundings when crossing streets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantz
The issue here is people walking and smoking on crowded Manhattan streets where you can't get away from smoke that's in your face.
Imo they should just designate certain busy streets as non-smoking areas like they do in Japan. I don't think the rest of the US or even most of New York City has enough pedestrian density where smoking outside is a problem.
Never been to Japan, but I thought I heard that in areas of Tokyo where certain sidewalk blocks prohibited smoking on the sidewalk, that there were occasional walk-in lounges on street corners(which sorta look like airport smoking lounges) where you could smoke in, in lieu of not being able to smoke on the sidewalk? IMO like another C-D poster said, I would lift the ban on smoking from bars and other adult only clubs, and let those businesses be able to decide once again if they wanted to have smoking, provided there was a clear exterior sign at their entrance and disclosures on job applications that they permit smoking. I suspect most bars would remain no smoking, if NYC ever lifted their ban on smoking in bars. I know for a fact whenever I visit Nashville, there are tons of adult-only bars there that if they wanted to could permit smoking inside, but voluntarily don't due to customer demand. It's ACTUALLY harder to find a smoking-permitted business(as such businesses that don't allow minors inside, are exempted from Tennessee's smoking ban), than one that bans smoking.
Also last I checked, I don't think there's anything conclusive that shows breathing a brief wisp of cigarette smoke outside on a sidewalk will kill you. It's only briefly annoying at worst, and IMO vehicle exhaust(especially from trucks) is FAR more annoying than cigarette smoke is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AguaDulce
What if it’s a private club?
What if it’s a cooperative, owned by its members and employees?
Thanks for your reply!
I totally agree with you, so darn much here. Sadly, I suspect Otto is one of those posters where regardless of how much logic you throw at him/her, that he/she is probably so stuck up in believing all the anti-smoking lies and overexaggerations that side likes to make up.
I realize different jurisdictions have different laws, which can easily be researched online.
I was not clear.
What I was wondering is whether you have firsthand knowledge of an actual private club or tavern that has figured out a way to provide refuge for smokers.
Also, the reason I asked is because most of the state bans that provide exceptions for private clubs only apply to clubs that were established before the ban went into effect.
No, I don't think they should get to decide - employees have a right to a smoke-free environment.
This is the argument used by the anti-smokers in objecting to the compromise I referred to earlier. Thing was, the employees of the establishments that chose to be officially smoking allowed also smoked and were delighted to have a place where they could work and smoking was not a problem, and were very unhappy when that went away. Don't THEY have rights, or is it only the people who share your prejudices that do?
How do you feel about allowing business owners to decide whether to permit smoking inside their establishments? Bars, taverns, etc.--Maybe even allowing private clubs to exist as smoker's refuges?
That way you can easily avoid them. Right?
Jo
2nd hand smoke inside a room is a health hazard if someone wants to smoke that's their business but inside a room I don't want to be forced to breath it. I grew up in the 70-80's when smoking was legal in most places I remember my father smoking in his hospital bed recovering from surgery LOL. I grew up in a house full of smokers and I hope it never returns to those days. Probably the one reason I never took up smoking I can remember the most growing up was first thing it the morning all the smokers in my house coughing when they woke up. My parents both smoked and my brother and his wife smoked after he got out of the Army he moved back in with us for about 4 years while he went to school.
How do you feel about allowing business owners to decide whether to permit smoking inside their establishments? Bars, taverns, etc.--Maybe even allowing private clubs to exist as smoker's refuges?
That way you can easily avoid them. Right?
kell490: 2nd hand smoke inside a room is a health hazard if someone wants to smoke that's their business but inside a room I don't want to be forced to breath it. I grew up in the 70-80's when smoking was legal in most places I remember my father smoking in his hospital bed recovering from surgery LOL. I grew up in a house full of smokers and I hope it never returns to those days. Probably the one reason I never took up smoking I can remember the most growing up was first thing it the morning all the smokers in my house coughing when they woke up. My parents both smoked and my brother and his wife smoked after he got out of the Army he moved back in with us for about 4 years while he went to school.
Hi, kell90:
What does that have to do with my post--the one that you were responding to?
Times have changed. Even if they lifted the indoor smoking ban, the overwhelming majority of business owners would not go back.
Are you afraid that all restaurants, bars, and stores would suddenly start allowing smoking, and that you would not be able to escape it, like in the old days?
The way things are now, with smokers having to go outside and smoke, you're much more likely to be exposed to it, like on the sidewalk, etc. (which is what the OP is about).
So, I offer a solution--let business owners decide whether they want to provide an indoor refuge for smokers and get them OFF the sidewalks, where the general public is.
2nd hand smoke inside a room is a health hazard if someone wants to smoke that's their business but inside a room I don't want to be forced to breath it. I grew up in the 70-80's when smoking was legal in most places I remember my father smoking in his hospital bed recovering from surgery LOL. I grew up in a house full of smokers and I hope it never returns to those days. Probably the one reason I never took up smoking I can remember the most growing up was first thing it the morning all the smokers in my house coughing when they woke up. My parents both smoked and my brother and his wife smoked after he got out of the Army he moved back in with us for about 4 years while he went to school.
Under the compromise I mentioned earlier, you would not be forced to breathe second hand smoke. There would be a large sign on the door of those businesses that chose to be smoking-allowed, and you could choose to go to one of the myriad of non-smoking venues available instead. The only difference would be that people who did enjoy smoking or who did not mind being around smoking would not be forced to not have a place to have that option. Any objection to that is not about not wanting to be exposed to smoke; it's about control over others, pure and simple.
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(flying...nerves, arrgh!) it was a couple of months after 9/11.
