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I just think it's hilarious that there's a family out there in DeSoto and Mesquite with the same Harvard sticker that Hockaday parents had to pay $30k a year starting in K to get.
I am glad that brings you happiness and smiles. I am happy for those kids as well.
Last edited by BstYet2Be; 06-22-2012 at 10:30 PM..
Reason: repaired quote
I have never had a problem with the so-called 'elite' Dallas private schools (I do have problems with a lot of privates which were formed just as an 'escape' from public schools with large numbers of minority and disadvantaged students) but let's not pretend that every child who comes out of them is going to be golden. You can pay for perfection but there is no guarantee. I've known three of their grads who committed suicide and two who overdosed. I also know some who really won't even speak to their former friends from public schools or if they do, they are very insulting. I've known a few who really were slackers waiting for their inheritance.
However, the large majority of them do well. That cannot be disputed.
I would say that a kid from Garland IB might be able to get along and be friendly with all sorts of people. That is a quality that cannot be accurately quantified for many years.
Incidentally Mike Morath is the school board rep for East Dallas/Lakewood and is helping our schools establish IB.
I agree with EDS. While the line is fine, I think there is a difference between 'helicoptering' and helping children identify/navigate appropriate goals. I like to think that I will let my kids have extensive freedom in choosing their courses in life, however my wife and I will make sure that (for our kids) the ceilings are high, and the boundaries will be far and wide. From this type of environment they can choose what they want, but I won't be responsible for limiting their choices through my inaction or inattentiveness.
^^^^Yes, this. Yes, each child's attributes are what will eventually determine their success, and yes, parental involvement in developing those attributes and helping children to achieve is tremendously important. Involved parents providing "appropriate" support and motivation (yes, there is a line where it's "too much", but that's often not the problem for kids, quite the opposite) working with their children will likely lead to success no matter what school they go to.
And yes, part of the success of kids at certain schools has to do with self-selecting populations (parents who are smart and educated, who have resources and who make education a high priority use of those resources which influences where they choose to live for publics, and additionally for privates a highly selective admissions process).
Having said that, there is certainly something to be said for being surrounded by and challenged by other smart kids in an academic environment, rather than being one of a relatively small group at other schools. I would agree that one drawback may be the "bubble" world outlook one can get if they are not in an ethnically and/or socioeconomically diverse environment, but even there many top private or public districts can offer as much diversity as a random public district.
Yes, if you're smart enough and driven enough you can perform well no matter what. But it helps to have parents who support you along the way, and yes, it also helps to be in a school that is academically rigorous. It may be counter-productive to take that to the Nth degree (er, not that I know anyone who spends too much time comparing GCISD to Carroll to the Flower Mound/Marcus feeders, for example) but yeah, top tier publics or the excellent privates certainly offer advantages over Garland ISD (since that's the one that's been mentioned repeatedly in this thread).
OK you are one of my two or three favorite posters on this board. Your, "outside the box" thinking is both interesting and very insightful.
However, let's just say, your analysis of kids schooled around here is limited by an unusual sample or sample size errors or both. Likely you only tutored kids who needed the help right?
My daughter's, she's a tenth grader, selections from her required summer reading list pool of books, I'm looking at these books as I type, "Jane Eyre", "Huckleberry Finn", "No Country for Old Men" and she's also reading the first half of Shirer's, "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" - how's that for light summer reading? In addition to that she must write a paper about American influences on mid-century Parisian jazz. Back to books my kids each have read dozens and dozens of classics and other interesting books required by teachers.
In summation I flatly reject the notion that better students from around Dallas are somehow not well exposed to literature and other things. For one example the notion that the OP's kiddo would somehow be left out in the cold attending Hockaday/Jesuit or Southlake/Plano West is just inaccurate.
Yes I agree that I certainly did not draw up a scientifically approved sample when making my obervations, and I should have included the caveat that these were just my opinions only.
Your daughter's curriculum looks like it matches up to what I was doing in high school, and I have to also admit that my interactions with American kids was limited to those from public schools only. So I should have corrected that also. That being said, I still feel that my statement holds up when compared to most schools here. I have seen the work done by kids from school districts like Richardson, Garland, Coppell, Fort Worth, Carroll/Southlake, Grand Prairie, not the whole metroplex, but a pretty broad swath of schools I would think. I've seen what counts as AP coursework from many of these schools as well, and I feel confident in saying that the work I did in high school was harder than most of these.
The final thing I would say is that it appears that the only way to get an equivalent education to what I got would require getting into a private school like the one your daughter attends; arguably one of the top two or three most expensive and difficult to get into schools in the metroplex, and I dare say in the whole state. The school I went to was required to accept all kids whose parents were expatriate workers. No testing to get in. For us, the school had a contract with most of the big firms in town so the fees were paid for, high tuition was not a barrier to entry. Thus the school had no means of weeding out the non performers, plus quite a few kids came from families were English was not the native language, so add that to the list of challenges. And yet, with all that, the school was able to produce people like me, no academic superstar, whose coursework can only be matched by the very best of schools here in DFW. That I think is what I was trying to get across to the OP, either be prepared to shell out $25K+ a year for private school, or pay top dollar to buy a home in the most affluent school districts (Highland Park, Southlake, West Plano)
Just a couple of quick thoughts on this very interesting post.
First, even the most challenging school is still not going to be hard enough for some parents. Most would agree that St. Marks and Hockaday are fine schools, but there are still some parents who send their kids to afternoon tutoring when the kids are 7-9 years old, not because they are behind, but to make them work harder and get ahead. Moreover, there are several girls in my daughters' classes that go to "Chinese" school on Saturday. Personally, I don't think this is necessary, but it certainly occurs.
Second, I laughed with your example of TCU. I love TCU and think that it is a fine school. But, TCU is not getting the top 5-10% of students from PISD, HPISD, etc. Moreover, TCU gets very few students from St. Marks, Greenhill, or Hockaday. TCU is providing a fine education to above-average students. Nothing more, and certainly not less.
Your example might have held more weight if you said that you went to an Ivy League school and kicked butt because your high school experience was so great.
I have no doubt that you had a far better education than the average TCU student, maybe even a better education than the average Ivy league student. But to me the real test is does St. Marks, ESD, Greenhill, Hockaday, etc. adequately prepare its students to succeed at college. I think the answer is yes.
For what it's worth, we had a couple of kids from my graduating class get into Oxford and Cambridge (the Harvard and Yale of the UK). I was not Ivy league material (scoring only 1370 out of 1600 on the SATs), but I did get accepted to a few schools ranked higher than TCU, but TCU gave me the most generous financial aid package so after taking one look at the tuition costs of all the schools, I knew I was going to be wearing purple
I think my example would hold more weight than yours simply because talking about the top 2% is not relevant to the vast majority of kids and their parents. Most of us parents if we are brutally honest with ourselves know that little Sally/Johnny is probably not going to be a Nobel Prize winner for Physics, thus hearing about that top 1% kid who scored perfect 1600s on the SATs and is currently kicking butt at MIT isnt really a good barometer for our kids. Like I said earlier, I was a fairly average student, high B low A...not terrible, but not fighting off offers from Harvard/Columbia either. And comparing myself to my peers who went to school here in the States, I felt that I was better prepared for the rigors of college, and yes, my peers at TCU were not top 2%, but they were not the reduced lunch/one parent household crowd either, they ranged from middle class to down right rich in some cases, their lives would be similar to many of us here on this board I suspect. I just didnt feel like they had the edge on me, considering I thought I would be the one with the handicap, coming in from a totally different country, culture and educational system. But it wasnt the case, I remember in English classes casually referencing some book I had read back in high school, and seeing blank faces barring the professor who would usually be shocked that I knew of the book. Same thing in Math and Chemistry class, the professor would cover a topic that I had already done in high school, and in trying to help my classmates I would discover that they hadnt covered the topic...and these were folks who had done AP in high school. Just my opinion.
1) you seem very interested in cultural diversity. Hockaday has a boarding school with girls from all of the world. This is more applicable to high school, than grade school, but it does provide cultural experiences for high school girls.
2) You also seem interested in science. Hockaday is enhancing its STEM Program. It has received around 25 million in the last year to bump up its program. I would be shocked if it does not have one of the premier STEM programs in the state in the next few years.
Been out of town for a while, sorry for the delay....Keep talking, I’m downloading my Hockaday applications right now . I have, for the longest time, thought that school is just out of my reach.
Her dad is not thrilled about a girls' only school... when he grew up he went to a boys only school ( not in Texas) and his memories of the girls from his sister school are that they are... well... how do I put this....um, not the nice girls that daddy thought they were...lol. I think that was probably just the one's HE knew. But I’ll get him to come around...
Hi BLD, It's weird, reading your post felt like reading my life story...I too am the son of expat parents, attended International School outside the US, and also took both the IGCSE and the IB...here's my two cents. Based on what you've said I will assume that your high school education was as rigorous as mine was...in which case, I can say that you will NOT find schools here to be to your liking (apologies to all the public and private boosters on this board, but it's the truth). I attended TCU, a private college here in the metroplex, and went to school with kids from all the "elite" school districts; the Planos, Coppells, Southlakes, etc I also took up tutoring for extra cash. I will say with certainty that the majority of those kids would struggle in the type of programs you and I went through. My math, writing, science and english language skills (remember poetry analysis?) were far more advanced than many of these kids, and I was just slightly above average in high school, not a genius by any means. I could comfortably handle the hard sciences, paper writing, etc that many of the kids from more affluent schools in the Metroplex struggled with. The gap is shocking...by the time I finished high school I had read most of the Shakespeare books, and others like Lord of the Flies, Waiting for Godot, Pride and Prejudice, Great Expectations and so on... you wont find that kind of experience here...it's all about passing the state testing or TAKS as they call it, a joke of a test requiring minimal thinking and analytical skills.
The problem from my vantage point is that many (but not all) American parents are more about the perception of the schools rather than the actual quality. As long as the schools don't look like the ghetto warfare zones that many of the poorer schools look like (and actually are in some cases) then that's enough for them. Other parents are more concerned with whether their kids would be able to play on the football/basketball/cheerleading squad.
Regarding the International School here in Dallas, don't be fooled by the name. It's not what you are thinking. Personally I think it's almost useless unless you are
a) From a francophone area (France, Quebec, some african/asian countries ruled by France),
b) You will be relocating to a francophone country in the future
c) You have a crystal ball and can predict that your child will one day work in the diplomatic corp/united nations/ other organisation requiring french skills.
Otherwise, it would be more helpful for your kid to learn spanish/mandarin/hindi. That's the way the world is turning over here. French is not going to be real helpful if you are going to be here in the US. Just my opinion.
In conclusion (yes, I'm rambling, please forgive me), regardless of where you enroll your child, you will have to look into supplementary teaching (outside of the school) to get your child up to the level you would expect. That's what I'm doing now with my kid. I'm currently using a weekend school up in Plano, which caters mainly to Indians so they are pretty rigourous, but there are plenty of other services that would do the job. Best of luck to you and welcome to the Metroplex!
You know... that what I’m afraid of.... (My kid not learning much) and what you describe is what is exactly what I seem to running into. (No offense everyone) POETRY ANALYSIS?? loll, don’t get me started! I learned a lot in school though I have to say.
I really am afraid of wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars and ending up with child who really won’t know much compared to her cousins overseas.... or spending nothing 9 public) and ending up with a child who REALLY doesn’t know much due to the limitations of her education. It’s not about the prestige or sports for me at all. I want to raise an Intelligent human being capable of thinking outside of the box and able to view life and the world for what it is....without letting it kill her spirit. I REALLY want a child that knows not to get caught up in the 'race'. Whatever that race may be when she's older. And I know a large part of that depends on me but I’m not that naive. He schooling will have ALOT to do with it too.
So far Hockaday is looking good, but so are PISD... and Greenhill. I think I’ll try my luck at those two privates but yeah... tutors will have to be part of my life it seems.
I'd argue that kids helo'd over perform better scholastically - in aggregate - than those left to navigate academic waters on their own.
Finally, my son graduated one of the North Dallas privates in '09. Precisely one kid from his class in not in tracking well through college now. For clarity there are a couple of other kids who dropped of the radar.
Well, I’d rather be a helicopter parent and know that I did all I could to help my child succeed. If my daughter drops out of school or becomes a career flyer girl at Harrah's (no offense to all the flyer girls) it won’t be because I coasted on parenting.
I'll do my parenting job to the best of my ability and resources. The rest will be up to her.
You know... that what I’m afraid of.... (My kid not learning much) and what you describe is what is exactly what I seem to running into. (No offense everyone) POETRY ANALYSIS?? loll, don’t get me started! I learned a lot in school though I have to say.
I really am afraid of wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars and ending up with child who really won’t know much compared to her cousins overseas.... or spending nothing 9 public) and ending up with a child who REALLY doesn’t know much due to the limitations of her education. It’s not about the prestige or sports for me at all. I want to raise an Intelligent human being capable of thinking outside of the box and able to view life and the world for what it is....without letting it kill her spirit. I REALLY want a child that knows not to get caught up in the 'race'. Whatever that race may be when she's older. And I know a large part of that depends on me but I’m not that naive. He schooling will have ALOT to do with it too.
So far Hockaday is looking good, but so are PISD... and Greenhill. I think I’ll try my luck at those two privates but yeah... tutors will have to be part of my life it seems.
It's just my opinion that here in DFW at least, you have to pay a whole lot more to get your child suitably educated, either directly (paying big bucks tuition at private schools, plus extra tutoring on the side) or indirectly (having to pay big bucks to buy a home in good school districts like HP, Southlake/Carroll etc). I didnt have to pay big bucks for my education, nor did I get extra tutoring (here Karen Dillard's is the big one) yet I felt my education loses nothing in comparison with kids in the most expensive private schools/school districts. I guess I was under the assumption that American elementary/high school education would be just as good as the college education, but that is really not the case for the majority when compared to those of us in other countries. JMO.
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. I have, for the longest time, thought that school is just out of my reach.
