Questions on relocation (Addison/Plano/Frisco) (Dallas, Georgetown: cul-de-sac, appointed, transplants)
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Hi Everyone,
I know there are a lot of relocation threads but I hope I can bend your ears on a few things.
My wife, son, and I would be moving from Bethesda, MD as my firm is relocating me to an office in Addison. We are looking in Plano and Frisco due to commute and schools. I have tried Google maps with traffic, etc, but what do you think would be an average commute time coming from the southern part of Frisco? Say, Lebanon and Legacy to central Addison? What about from Plano, around Hoit and Hedgcoxe? Coit and W. Park?
We are looking critically at schools, primarily Elementary school, as we have a 1 year old and would like to have another couple children in the next few years. HAR.com is great for statistics, and the test scores seems to be pretty much all high in the entire Plano ISD, but in practice what are the levels where a school starts to get dicey as far as the percent of students that are "economically disadvantaged?" 15%? 25%. For example the Mitchell Elementary school district seems to have a lot of nice homes in our price range, and a short commute, but over 33% of student are "disadvantaged." Does that mean 1/3 of the students are on welfare? Without mincing words, we would like to be part of a school and community where there are mostly families like us and I dont get dirty looks picking up my son in our BMW. That being said, its only a five year old 3 series, and we do not need to be in a community where we cannot do the same activities as our neighbors since they are going to Vail and Bali every other month, or that the entire social atmosphere revolves around a country club. I make around $160,000 per year if that helps.
Finally it is very important as transplants (and my wife staying at home) for us to be able to meet other families. Can anyone recommend any subdivisions that have a park and/or pool? We have been looking into Highlands / Russell Park, Highland Ridge, Cypress Creek, among others. We would love to be in the Barksdale district for the short commute, but it seems there are not a lot of parks in that area. Are there any subdivisions around there that have their own park/playground/pool? Any subdivisions in other areas west of 75 or in the southern half of Frisco we should look into?
We are looking at homes from $300-$415,000, need 4 bedrooms and an office, or 5 bedrooms without, and a second living area for a game room (third for a media room is a bonus, as is a pool). My wife has pretty high standards for the kitchen and is not really as concerned with my commute as I am (nor does she care if there is a pool). If there is no pool we would like enough room to put one in in a year or two, and still have green space. Something we have struggled with is a lot of the newer construction is on lots so small (even in Frisco) that a pool would eat up the entire back yard, but we are concerned with the electricity costs of the older homes. Is there any way to look up electricity bills for a house with the power company?
Hi Everyone,
I know there are a lot of relocation threads but I hope I can bend your ears on a few things.
My wife, son, and I would be moving from Bethesda, MD as my firm is relocating me to an office in Addison. We are looking in Plano and Frisco due to commute and schools. I have tried Google maps with traffic, etc, but what do you think would be an average commute time coming from the southern part of Frisco? Say, Lebanon and Legacy to central Addison? What about from Plano, around Hoit and Hedgcoxe? Coit and W. Park?
My wife did this commute for years. Average travel time from Coit/Park is 20 minutes (10 minutes to the Tollway, 10 minutes on the Tollway), with rush hour potential for an occasional extra 10-30 minutes due to accidents or extreme traffic. I'd estimate, in rush hour, you'd need to tack on another 10 minutes for Coit/Hedgcoxe, another 20-25 minutes for Lebanon/Legacy.
Quote:
We are looking critically at schools, primarily Elementary school, as we have a 1 year old and would like to have another couple children in the next few years. HAR.com is great for statistics, and the test scores seems to be pretty much all high in the entire Plano ISD, but in practice what are the levels where a school starts to get dicey as far as the percent of students that are "economically disadvantaged?" 15%? 25%.
YMMV, but in reference to PISD, it seems as if the individual schools begin to cater to reduced expectations once the ED percentage gets above 35%.
Quote:
For example the Mitchell Elementary school district seems to have a lot of nice homes in our price range, and a short commute, but over 33% of student are "disadvantaged." Does that mean 1/3 of the students are on welfare?
I believe, as far as school districts go, "economically disadvantaged" = "eligible for free or reduced lunch". As such, there's a specific income guideline for that, which is a function of the number of kids in the household. So, a working-class family with an at-home mom and 4 kids could easily be part of that demographic, as could a single working parent with one kid living in an apartment. Yes, there could be some stereotypical "welfare queens" included in the mix. But for the most part, Plano ISD has more "working poor" than "non-working poor".
Quote:
Without mincing words, we would like to be part of a school and community where there are mostly families like us and I dont get dirty looks picking up my son in our BMW. That being said, its only a five year old 3 series, and we do not need to be in a community where we cannot do the same activities as our neighbors since they are going to Vail and Bali every other month, or that the entire social atmosphere revolves around a country club. I make around $160,000 per year if that helps.
In Plano ISD, you're simply not going to be able to completely avoid poor people. For example, if you buy in Barksdale, eventually (from 9th grade on) your kids will attend school with the Mitchell kids.
You could target ISDs like Highland Park and Southlake Carroll, both of whom have specifically priced out poor kids, largely by blocking apartment construction within their district boundaries. But then, as you observed, YOU'RE the poor family on the block.
As you've already figured out, Mitchell would be the ideal area for you commute-wise. Rose Haggar just to the east is another possibility. Now THAT'S an interesting PTA - $1M+ homes backing up to White Rock Creek and sketchy apartment complexes, all at the same school.
For the price range you're looking at, and taking into account your preference for low ED schools (and BMWs), I'd suggest the Deerfield neighborhood - feeds to Haun/Robinson/Jasper/PWSH. Take the $20K+ you were going to spend on a new pool, and instead get a family membership at Lifetime Fitness right next door. All the pool you'll ever need, without the upkeep hassles.
My parents live in the Barksdale attendance zone and live half a block from Coyote Creek park - creek running through it, jogging path, play grounds, basketball court, pavilion, etc. plus you can walk to the library through the park. The library has lots of kids programming for toddlers through elementary. My children love to go when we visit. Lots of homes in your price range and with pools although the backyards are tiny.
There's also the nature preserve just west of there, the name is escaping me right now. Arbor something? Also has play equipment, picnic pavilion and lots of joggers.
Check out Tom Muehlenbeck center as well. Great/fun pools with slides and lazy river plus nice workout facility.
Very reasonable fees for Plano residents.
Can't speak to rush hour commute but know it takes me about 15 minutes to get to midway/Parker from just south if Addison at non peak times.
My wife did this commute for years. Average travel time from Coit/Park is 20 minutes (10 minutes to the Tollway, 10 minutes on the Tollway), with rush hour potential for an occasional extra 10-30 minutes due to accidents or extreme traffic. I'd estimate, in rush hour, you'd need to tack on another 10 minutes for Coit/Hedgcoxe, another 20-25 minutes for Lebanon/Legacy.
YMMV, but in reference to PISD, it seems as if the individual schools begin to cater to reduced expectations once the ED percentage gets above 35%.
I believe, as far as school districts go, "economically disadvantaged" = "eligible for free or reduced lunch". As such, there's a specific income guideline for that, which is a function of the number of kids in the household. So, a working-class family with an at-home mom and 4 kids could easily be part of that demographic, as could a single working parent with one kid living in an apartment. Yes, there could be some stereotypical "welfare queens" included in the mix. But for the most part, Plano ISD has more "working poor" than "non-working poor".
In Plano ISD, you're simply not going to be able to completely avoid poor people. For example, if you buy in Barksdale, eventually (from 9th grade on) your kids will attend school with the Mitchell kids.
You could target ISDs like Highland Park and Southlake Carroll, both of whom have specifically priced out poor kids, largely by blocking apartment construction within their district boundaries. But then, as you observed, YOU'RE the poor family on the block.
As you've already figured out, Mitchell would be the ideal area for you commute-wise. Rose Haggar just to the east is another possibility. Now THAT'S an interesting PTA - $1M+ homes backing up to White Rock Creek and sketchy apartment complexes, all at the same school.
For the price range you're looking at, and taking into account your preference for low ED schools (and BMWs), I'd suggest the Deerfield neighborhood - feeds to Haun/Robinson/Jasper/PWSH. Take the $20K+ you were going to spend on a new pool, and instead get a family membership at Lifetime Fitness right next door. All the pool you'll ever need, without the upkeep hassles.
I like the Deerfield plan.
1. Kiddo could literally walk to Haun.
2. Buy a house with a pool. The Lifetime thing makes sense until you go over to swim outside when the weather is nice and 500 people are in the outdoor pool.
3. In Deerfield most non-corner/cul-de-sac lots are too small for both a pool and significant greenery in the back yard. The same applies across most of Plano and Frisco.
4. One has several escape routes to and from Addison and Deerfield.
5. Deerfield is full of nice cars.
6. Deerfield has an HOA - with a history of being extremely cool.
Thanks so much everyone for the very helpful replies. I will probably be circling back as we look at houses, and please keep the neighborhood recommendations coming! So far we like Whiffletree / Estates at Forest Creek (is there a difference?), Highlands, Highland Ridge, and the Barksdale area. My wife doesn't want to have to cross a main road to get to a park/library/pool so only part of Barksdale area (near the park) works for us, and that area doesn't seem to have much in the way of quality inventory right now. Also looking at Villages of Preston Meadow. Any feedback on any of those would be really helpful.
In Frisco, Cypress Creek and Stonewater Crossing are on our radar mostly because there is one house in each of those that we love... and while built in 2009 they both have the whole gamut of energy efficiency upgrades. Can anyone recommend any Frisco neighborhoods with (relatively) mature trees and more of a "Plano" feel?
In houses like these (two story, built in the 1990s) what would you say a summer electric bill may be for a house with no major efficiency upgrades? If it has solar screen, r-39 insulation in attic, and/or radiant barrier? Say 3300 square feet? Any estimates for homeowners insurance with pool? Without pool?
Finally, any estimates for installing the R-39 or whatever the high grade is of attic insulation, attic fan, solar screens? One home we like in Whiffletree is a little older and pretty big (so big money A/C bill) but has an allowance to the buyer that we could use for energy upgrades.
A little disappointed I didn't get even one snarky "it sounds like you will fit right in around Plano" comment!
Definitely an upgrade for us! This is a voluntary move and we are very happy with the options we are seeing. A typical, decent "starter home" around here with less than a 45 minute commute in traffic (to Chevy Chase... NOT downtown DC) and a good neighborhood with good schools costs would be in Kensington, MD, and cost about $500k for at the most 2,000 miserable, painfully outdated square feet. And somehow all the neighbors are still dicey since they moved there 20 years ago. You have some neighbors with cars on the lawn, paint peeling off the siding, overgrown weeds, etc.
Really for something truly comparable to what we are seeing in Plano, it would cost about $1.2mm in Potomac or $1.5mm+ in Bethesda or Chevy Chase.
Although the rental market in Dallas is lopsided in favor of buying, its still worth noting we rent an 1,100 square foot 2br/2ba condo in "North Bethesda" (Rockville) for $1,950/month (would cost $350,000 to buy). Similar place in downtown Bethesda or Chevy Chase near the office owuld be over $3,000/month. Our last place, in DC, was $2,900/month for 1br/1.5ba (would cost $500,000 to buy plus $800/month in fees)... granted it was in Georgetown but still only 1000 sq ft. For a similar after-tax cost as our current condo, we could be in an updated 2800 sq ft house with a pool in Plano well west of 75.
So yes, an upgrade.
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