Comparing Lifestyle centers and outdoor malls in all of DFW (Arlington: condos, credit)

[Davidlewisville]

I would like to Compare the the Lifestyle centers or outdoor malls eg: Southlake Town Center, Shops of Highland Village, Frisco Square, Legacy Village, the Highlands in Arlington, Alliance Town Center or Fairview or others I can't think of across the Metroplex which one do you think is the most successful or will be in the long run.

[WorldKlas]

Originally Posted by Davidlewisville

I would like to Compare the the Lifestyle centers or outdoor malls eg: Southlake Town Center, Shops of Highland Village, Frisco Square, Legacy Village, the Highlands in Arlington, Alliance Town Center or Fairview or others I can't think of across the Metroplex which one do you think is the most successful or will be in the long run.

Havent been to Frisco or Fairview but the Southlake and Arlington open air malls are thriving and I believe will continue on sucessfully

[Ralph_Kirk]

Originally Posted by Davidlewisville

I would like to Compare the the Lifestyle centers or outdoor malls eg: Southlake Town Center, Shops of Highland Village, Frisco Square, Legacy Village, the Highlands in Arlington, Alliance Town Center or Fairview or others I can't think of across the Metroplex which one do you think is the most successful or will be in the long run.

Is Firewheel in that group?

[OklahomaSooner08]

I think Southlake Town Square, Watters Creek & Legacy.

I think Legacy will continue to be extremely successful, as evidenced by the expansion (first with Legacy North & now Legacy West). The sheer influx of people to that area from all the corporate relocations to that area and daytime traffic position it well for continued success. They also have the array of restaurants necessary to make it a popular evening destination.

Southlake & Watters Creek seem to be more retail-oriented, but both are always packed every time I'm there. I think WC is positioned well with the direct 75 frontage and signage. Southlake TC is a destination in itself for that area and always seems to attract crowds.

Generally speaking, the outdoor / mixed-use center is the new indoor mall, so I think all of them will continue to fare well, provided they have the right mix of tenants and the right location to sustain whatever tenants they do have.

An example of what can happen when traffic in a given location isn't what you anticipate would be Parker Square in Flower Mound. It could have been very successful, but it just didn't take off like Southlake TC or other developments did despite following the new town center phenomenon. I think part of this was due to the developers overestimating the amount of traffic through that section of FloMo.

[Prospered]

Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk

Is Firewheel in that group?

It is.

[Prospered]

Legacy has a huge advantage of location and they are dining and socialization centered with just enough retail to keep it interesting so of course very successful. It's a fun place for lunch, dinner or just a coffee or movie.

Others are more retail centric and not as well located but doing okay. Some better than others.

[jdallas]

Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk

Is Firewheel in that group?

Yes. Shops at Park Lane would be as well.


As for longevity, hard to say. There was a trend roughly 15 years ago with creating the live, work, play 'town center' development concept of high density residential combined with light retail/commercial. The idea was that the development stood a greater chance of success without the large anchor tenant concept of mall development with a focus on building in it's own consumer base with the residential. smaller 'boutique' floorplates are much easier to turn over than big box. If a dozen Hot topics close, there will be a Yankee Candle to replace them but finding a tenant for a Bed Bath Beyond is a lot more difficult.
Developers just need to be careful about cannibalizing by creating them too close to each other and resisting the urge to clump everything together behind a giant parking lot. Much of the success is psychological.


Those developments that were established before the credit collapse have tended to do okay and it's becoming more popular again among developers.


There's a great example of one that failed to launch at Walnut Hill and Skillman. That's become a great place to teach people how to drive.


Here's one that had really rotten timing and has struggled significantly (article is a couple years old but highlights some of the pitfalls).
25 condos in Rocketts Landing go on the auction block - Richmond Times-Dispatch: Condos-in-rocketts-landing-go-on-the-auction-block


By contrast, the Virginia Beach town center directly across from a 'valley view-esque' indoor mall has done very well.


The ones that are in the most danger are the ones which rely completely on retail traffic.

[Ralph_Kirk]

Ah, then, CityLine in Richardson--still largely under construction--is another.

Originally Posted by jdallas

Yes. Shops at Park Lane would be as well.


As for longevity, hard to say. There was a trend roughly 15 years ago with creating the live, work, play 'town center' development concept of high density residential combined with light retail/commercial. The idea was that the development stood a greater chance of success without the large anchor tenant concept of mall development with a focus on building in it's own consumer base with the residential. smaller 'boutique' floorplates are much easier to turn over than big box. If a dozen Hot topics close, there will be a Yankee Candle to replace them but finding a tenant for a Bed Bath Beyond is a lot more difficult.
Developers just need to be careful about cannibalizing by creating them too close to each other and resisting the urge to clump everything together behind a giant parking lot. Much of the success is psychological.


Those developments that were established before the credit collapse have tended to do okay and it's becoming more popular again among developers.


There's a great example of one that failed to launch at Walnut Hill and Skillman. That's become a great place to teach people how to drive.


Here's one that had really rotten timing and has struggled significantly (article is a couple years old but highlights some of the pitfalls).
25 condos in Rocketts Landing go on the auction block - Richmond Times-Dispatch: Condos-in-rocketts-landing-go-on-the-auction-block


By contrast, the Virginia Beach town center directly across from a 'valley view-esque' indoor mall has done very well.


The ones that are in the most danger are the ones which rely completely on retail traffic.

[texas_treehugger]

Legacy and Allen outlets are appealing because they have more restaurants with nice patios and nightlife. Firewheel is still lacking in that area.