Uptown and Downtown. There is no difference (Dallas, McKinney: 2015, apartments)

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by turf3

Actually, the "Uptown" designation is 100% marketeering, and I remember when it was created. (The current iteration of "hipster" didn't exist at the time.) Suddenly actual Dallasites who had called that neighborhood "Oak Lawn" for decades started hearing "Uptown this" and "Uptown that" as the real estate developers started aggressively marketeering the area to yuppies who would have been leery of living in "Oak Lawn" as "Oak Lawn" basically was the gay district.

Yes, well regardless of the origins, the two neighborhoods feel distinctly different now and I don't think that's a bad thing. The area was too big to remain one large neighborhood, it inevitably needs to be broken up. I think you could even make the argument that the marketing that made a distinction between Oaklawn and Uptown helped Oaklawn retain it's identity to some degree.

The area has always had smaller sub neighborhoods, and those have changed names over the years. Deep Ellum used to run right up to State Thomas, and there used to be a Jewish neighborhood near where victory park is now (or so I've read) Parts used to be called little Mexico.

Even today, there are subneighborhoods: State Thomas, West Village, people who live near Katy Trail say they live in uptown on Katy Trail.

[DPatel304]

Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92

Downtown has a more regular grid, but it has way more surface parking and much more dangerous parking garages. I know 2 people who have been hit down there when they had the right of way. Part of it might have to do with it still being more of a 9-5 downtown, with the vast majority of people commuting via car.

For all the progress....Downtown Dallas remains possibly the most autocentric downtown of any major city...at least among the most.

The surface parking can (and eventually will) be developed into something more pedestrian friendly/urban. I also agree Downtown has better 'urban bones'. It's not perfect, as you noted, but it's in a much better position to become a lively, urban neighborhood. It will take a decade or so, but Downtown already has a decent start with much more room to grow.

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by tcualum

Thanks for explaining this to me. I'd been wondering what the difference between Oak Lawn and Uptown was and now I know that there isn't one. I'd always thought of Oak Lawn as the gay district and the place for brunchers. It never occurred to me though to avoid the area because of the gay district moniker.

No, there definitely is a difference.

What we now call Oak Lawn gentrified first, and is alot more auto centric. What we now call Uptown is less eclectic, more corporate, and more new urbanisty.

Oaklawn, Uptown, and Downtown all overlap like good urban neighborhoods should, but they are distinct. It may not be apparent to someone from out of town, just as if you were in lets say Chicago, you might think that the Loop, Gold Coast, and Lincoln Park are all one neighborhood because they overlap.

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by DPatel304

The surface parking can (and eventually will) be developed into something more pedestrian friendly/urban. I also agree Downtown has better 'urban bones'. It's not perfect, as you noted, but it's in a much better position to become a lively, urban neighborhood. It will take a decade or so, but Downtown already has a decent start with much more room to grow.

Possibly. As much as I am a fan of the American Urban grid, it isn't the only factor, lots of cities that don't have a regular grid at all are quite walkable.

Although on a grid, downtown has wide fast streets, and lots of badly placed parking garages. I mean not that uptown doesn't....

[R1070]

I believe Knox District is within the "Oak Lawn" boundaries as well.

[DPatel304]

Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92

Although on a grid, downtown has wide fast streets, and lots of badly placed parking garages. I mean not that uptown doesn't....

Yeah, I agree that the wide, one-way streets are not pedestrian friendly at all. On the plus side, it does give the city room to work with in terms of adding bike lanes, wider side-walks, etc.. Obviously this is all hypothetical, but, let's say there is enough demand to add bike lanes all over the city, well it's much easier to do so in Downtown where the roads are much larger than Uptown.

But you're right, surface parking and wide streets are really bad for a walkable neighborhood, but I see them both as just temporary problems that can be fixed in the next decade or so.

[Treasurevalley92]

Originally Posted by DPatel304

Yeah, I agree that the wide, one-way streets are not pedestrian friendly at all. On the plus side, it does give the city room to work with in terms of adding bike lanes, wider side-walks, etc.. Obviously this is all hypothetical, but, let's say there is enough demand to add bike lanes all over the city, well it's much easier to do so in Downtown where the roads are much larger than Uptown.

But you're right, surface parking and wide streets are really bad for a walkable neighborhood, but I see them both as just temporary problems that can be fixed in the next decade or so.

With all the positive changes I've seen, I'm hopeful you are right!

[dallasboi]

Originally Posted by stoneclaw

I was just in Dallas this weekend and I used to be able to determine some kind of distinction between Uptown Dallas and Downtown Dallas. Now, I literally cannot tell the difference. I know this all started with the bridging of Klyde Warren over Woddall Rogers about 7 or 8 years ago. The towers in Uptown seem to be just as tall as most of the one ones in Downtown.


I was leaving Ruth Chris restaurant in Uptown and I told my girlfriend that we were going to ride through downtown, but I crossed the street off Cedar Spring and was perplexed to say the least. It was already giving the appearance of what I always identified as the CBD and I pretty much got lost.


So, I'm wondering now if its just all called Downtown kind of like Charlotte's downtown is actually called Uptown.

Hey Stoneclaw...where have you been?!!!!!!!

Glad you made your way back up to Dallas after so many years. Did it surprise you or was it what you expected?

[RJ312]

Downtown is south of Woodall Rogers and north of Interstate 30. I perceive a difference between Uptown and Downtown. Nightlife in Uptown is more vibrant than Downtown. I've rarely ever gone out for nightlife in Downtown over the years I've lived here. I've been out in Uptown more often. Over the last ~3 years, Uptown has gotten more seedy, and is in a decline phase. Deep Ellum is re-surging and is attempting to become what Uptown was from 2010-2014 or so. There's no indication that Downtown is going to be a hub of nightlife in the short term.

[NoClueWho]

Originally Posted by turf3

Actually, the "Uptown" designation is 100% marketeering, and I remember when it was created. (The current iteration of "hipster" didn't exist at the time.) Suddenly actual Dallasites who had called that neighborhood "Oak Lawn" for decades started hearing "Uptown this" and "Uptown that" as the real estate developers started aggressively marketeering the area to yuppies who would have been leery of living in "Oak Lawn" as "Oak Lawn" basically was the gay district.

This is 100% correct.