Big Decisions - Pre-Med - Baylor vs UTD (Austin: college)

[UnfairPark]

Originally Posted by calgirlinnc

Except OP's son does not have a choice to go to Harvard.


All of this back and forth is missing the point.

Is Baylor $160,000 better than UTD?

My impression from reading Op's posts is that the son wants "the full college experience" and believes Baylor is more prestigious.

Is the "full college experience" worth $160,000?

I'd say no, not if by that we're talking football games and fraternity parties. It's a ludicrous amount of money.

Full college experience doesn’t equate to football and parties. It also means a vibrant residential campus, a supportive community, fun athletic events and intramural sports, variety of extracurriculars, social events, visiting speakers, easy access to good professors, good selection of courses, great writing classes, undergrad focus, smart and engaged peers, expanding your mind, good connections for internships and jobs, well known among employers, distinguished alumni network and much more.

As far as if it’s worth $160 or $160,000, it depends upon individual family. If they are rich $160,000 isn’t much, if they are in debt, $160 is a lot. If they are poor and have generous financial aid offers, it’s all free lunch. If they are upper middle class professionals with dual income, they can make it work. One hat doesn’t fit all. Posters on this forum who are buying 700k homes and $50k cars and customizing their media rooms, expensive private K-12 schools, they have options if education fits on their list.

As far as OP, I don’t know his financial circumstances or his priorities, I can’t say what’s worth what for him. It’s for him to decide. If I tell him to live in a 2 bed condo Garland condo or buy beaten up Kia because his double story house or Lexus isn’t worth the expense to me, should he listen? No. Same goes for education. All we can do is to give him arguments for both cases and then let him decide what’s worth it to him.

[mSooner]

Originally Posted by UnfairPark

Well, Johns Hopkins is a very exclusive dream even for top students, let alone average no-name undergrads trying to break into any no-name place that accepts them.

This isn't necessarily for OP, but I think it is also wise (for anyone else reading) to know that the goal in medicine shouldn't necessarily be to get into the "Biggest bestest name med school"-->"Biggest bestest name residency"-->"Biggest bestest name fellowship." On some level, there are always going to be a few places that shine, but it varies dramatically by specialty and regionalism/individual achievement starts playing the bigger role once you get into residency interviews. Some of the "big names" out there actually have relatively ****ty reputations in certain specialties because they are seen as not letting residents be hands on enough/being completely run by fellows.

Or you could go to an academic powerhouse for residency/fellowship and be surrounded by mentors who have no clue why you don't want to do X job instead of X job that the new grad feels suits him/her better. I've heard more than one story of this happening.

[UnfairPark]

I’m coming to a conclusion that only flawless plan here is to go for free lunches, that fixes everything and there is no disadvantage nor space for anything to go wrong. Just save money, make money and live extravagantly. Quality matters in everything else but not when it comes to education or dreams.

To be crystal clear, this discussion is not about people who can’t afford it but ones who have choices. If government can fix college universe then all colleges would cost same and merit would be the only currency and finances of parents wouldn’t matter.

[calgirlinnc]

Originally Posted by UnfairPark

Full college experience doesn’t equate to football and parties. It also means a vibrant residential campus, a supportive community, fun athletic events and intramural sports, variety of extracurriculars, social events, visiting speakers, easy access to good professors, good selection of courses, great writing classes, undergrad focus, smart and engaged peers, expanding your mind, good connections for internships and jobs, well known among employers, distinguished alumni network and much more.

Well what does it mean to OP's son?

I have a different perspective than many, because although I did graduate from a university that had the ideal college life (UCLA), I also taught college for over 10 years. I taught at some small private colleges and some very large national universities that you would immediately know.

And I gotta tell you...

Your description is extremely idealized.

IRL, alcoholic professors receive tenure and show up to class drunk and yell at their undergraduate students that they are stupid.
IRL graduate students do the majority of the teaching to freshman and sophomores.
IRL, graduate school is cut throat and competitive and professors do not give a da*n about you. You are their replacements, and they are not generous with ideas or time.
IRL, students cheat. They steal papers from the internet or from their roommate. They pay for papers. They pay for class notes.
IRL, fraternity and sorority houses keep old copies of exams, that they then provide to everyone.
IRL, students don't go to class because they are hung over from the night before.
IRL, students who do not belong at a particular college/university get in because of quotas, while their more qualified peers are rejected because of same quotas.
IRL, rich and/or famous parents cheat and bribe their kid's way into universities
IRL, the best courses are always overbooked, so that by the time you are a senior, you are having to beg the professor to admit you because otherwise you will not graduate on time
IRL, the football that you deride pays for a heck of a lot of other stuff.

As far as OP, I don’t know his financial circumstances or his priorities, I can’t say what’s worth what for him. It’s for him to decide. If I tell him to live in a 2 bed condo Garland condo or buy beaten up Kia because his double story house or Lexus isn’t worth the expense to me, should he listen? No. Same goes for education. All we can do is to give him arguments for both cases and then let him decide what’s worth it to him.

Not a fair comparison, because real estate is almost always an appreciating asset. And as far as the Kia or the Lexus, you should buy a 10 year old Lexus versus the new Kia.

Originally Posted by UnfairPark

I’m coming to a conclusion that only flawless plan here is to go for free lunches, that fixes everything and there is no disadvantage nor space for anything to go wrong. Just save money, make money and live extravagantly. Quality matters in everything else but not when it comes to education or dreams.

To be crystal clear, this discussion is not about people who can’t afford it but ones who have choices. If government can fix college universe then all colleges would cost same and merit would be the only currency and finances of parents wouldn’t matter.

I don't really know much about UTD or Baylor, but you are making it sound like UTD is Podunk Junior College and Baylor is Oxford, and I know that isn't true.

Colleges/universities in this country are in a bubble because everyone has bought into what you were saying above. It's a fairy tale.

People go into debt for hundreds of thousands of dollars for "prestige" or the mythical "experience" and many times, is not worth it.

[arkroyal2223]

Originally Posted by EDS_

My son's roommate at Baylor with a 3.80+ GPA and a 32 (might have been a 33) old MCAT didn't even get an interview to a Texas medical school.

Either that kid only applied to one Texas school or had some red flags in his file because thats pretty strange to not even get interviews with those stats which are really good numbers


And it seems that the consensus on here so far is UTD

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by arkroyal2223

Either that kid only applied to one Texas school or had some red flags in his file because thats pretty strange to not even get interviews with those stats which are really good numbers


And it seems that the consensus on here so far is UTD

He filled out the Texas common app that at time even included Baylor. If there is a blem. on his record I'm not aware of it. We've known this kid since he was in diapers - literally - he certainly didn't have any DUIs, cheating, etc. on his record. He ended up going to one of the very expensive DO schools and has a sweet ER/ED residency out west now. So it worked out fine except for the expense.

FWIIW that year my son had spectacular metrics (perfect grades, exceptional MCAT, extras) and was waitlisted at UTSW.

_________________________________

Regardless of all that as you say the OP's son should attend UTD.

[UnfairPark]

What do you see in UT’s future? With top talent going to top 20 schools and others going to schools with merit scholarships. Who is going to UT? Ones who get rejected from top 20 or didn’t get scholarship at UTD, TAMU,Baylor?

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by UnfairPark

What do you see in UT’s future? With top talent going to top 20 schools and others going to schools with merit scholarships. Who is going to UT? Ones who get rejected from top 20 or didn’t get scholarship at UTD, TAMU,Baylor?

UT is fine. Not aimed at you but I get a kick out of the, "UT isn't in the top 20 so it's falling apart" thinking....telling me more about the US based ranking methodologies (UT usually places in the 50s) when The World University Rankings place UT at #39 (#21 among all US schools and #5 among public schools) and climbing ranking ahead of Washington University St. Louis, UNC, UVA, UC - Davis and legions of others.

About a year ago I added them up and UT had roughly 70 different UG and graduate programs in ranked in the top 10 in respective areas - IIRC 19 were in engineering alone.

So by any rational measure that does not "overweight" low performing auto-admits UT is an academic powerhouse.

[UnfairPark]

UT is obviously more desirable than UTD and as soon as system would end giving money to lure students towards UTS and market would correct itself.

[Saransh]

I would say go with UTD. It’s a fantastic school, that’s climbing up the ranks, rapidly. School rankings are all hoopla, after a certain stage. Coming out of college debt free is the biggest gift our kids can give themselves, irrespective which path they decide to take. Let him stay on campus. Spend that money on grad school, where it’s worth it