Are hoods overrated? (Dallas, Killeen, Frisco: low income, for sale, real estate)

[Lutalo]

Question, I've been to Dallas a few times in years gone by. Have been thinking of going down there to live so I've been becoming more geographically educated on affordable areas. Seems like affordable is associated with ghetto. Is it true that 2/3 of the city is considered the hood... Meaning 90% of the south, 70% of the east and west and a few areas in the north? Are people overly senstive or do I really need to spend 180k plus on a house?

What does a Dallas ghetto look like??? Low income people hanging out at liquor stores is A-OK with me if its not violent, I dont really consider that ghetto. To me a ghetto is where you cant go out after 9 O'clock without being solicited for drugs/prostitution and you cant park your car on the street without it being smashed into.

[dgz]

Originally Posted by Lutalo

Question, I've been to Dallas a few times in years gone by. Have been thinking of going down there to live so I've been becoming more geographically educated on affordable areas. Seems like affordable is associated with ghetto. Is it true that 2/3 of the city is considered the hood... Meaning 90% of the south, 70% of the east and west and a few areas in the north? Are people overly senstive or do I really need to spend 180k plus on a house?

What does a Dallas ghetto look like??? Low income people hanging out at liquor stores is A-OK with me if its not violent, I dont really consider that ghetto. To me a ghetto is where you cant go out after 9 O'clock without being solicited for drugs/prostitution and you cant park your car on the street without it being smashed into.

Your definition of ghetto is similar to mine. I think that there are just a few people in this forum who are uptight about their need to live in housing developments that have very large houses and the 'brand new' look to them--and if a neighborhood doesn't meet that criteria, it must be 'dangerous.'

But you don't need to spend $180k on a house to live in a nice place (i.e., where nice place = nice neighbors, safe place, can walk your dog at night, houses are kept up, good schools). There are plenty of places in north and east Dallas and in the suburbs that have reasonably priced homes and are in nicely-maintained neighborhoods.

A few years ago, before the housing market began to decline, I was thinking of moving closer into the city and began looking at houses. And I remember this real estate agent trying to pressure me with 'Well, you make x amount of money and you can afford a house 2x the amount of what you've asked me to look for" but I'm thinking, "Yes, but I would have to take a 30-year mortgage and I would be spending almost 30% of my monthly income on the mortgage. Plus, when I paid the house off, if I was still here after 30 years, I'd still be paying much higher taxes and utility bills."

For this reason, I think that some of this need to buy in a 'big new house' neighborhood to feel secure may be heavily influenced by builders, real estate developers, etc. (And to take this further... is there any connection between this and the need to drive large SUVs/Hummers/Etc.?) This might explain why this area has such as a high rate of foreclosures, credit card, etc.

[fratermus]

One quick yardstick is whether or not the locals have put bars on their windows. They know more about their neighborhood than I do. If you have areas you are interested in, you might be able to do a cursory fly-by with Google streetview on the maps.


To me a ghetto is identifiable by two broad sets of criteria:

PEOPLE
Are there police helicopters flying around looking for suspects?
Am I in significant danger of getting mugged?
Am I likely to get panhandled?

ENVIRONMENT
Is the area covered with litter?
Boarded up buildings?
Abandoned shopping carts?

Many neighborhoods are comprised of very modest housing: meager but respectable home ownership for the low end of the working class. I have lived in such places when I was growing up and they were safe, neighborly, and quiet. I am sad when I see modest houses destroyed and replaced with soul-less McMansions for $30k millionaires.

[FarNorthDallas]

I think it's all relative. To some my neighborhood is a nice established neighborhood and to others when they are moving here they think they are settling for the 'hood and bring a totally unnecessary guard dog with them. So, I just think it depends on what people are used to. Home prices range from $165,000-250,000.

Reasons why my neighborhood is not a 'hood:
1. Almost all the houses in the 500+ development are owner occupied.
2. A large percentage of owners are original owners from the late 1960s.
3. A large number of homes have had all of their windows replaced and pricey new fences.
4. The local elementary school is Exemplary.
5. The voluntary homeowners association is very active with the above-named orginal owners.
6. Trash blowing around gets picked up by somebody.
7. Neighborhood events such as Easter egg hunt, July 4th parade.
8. Young families with little kids are still moving in and the kids can play outside.
9. There are never very many houses for sale and few foreclosures (course if you base it on foreclosures then the city of Frisco is a 'hood).

Reasons why some people think they are slumming it living in our 'hood:
1. It's not new.
2. The houses are only 1,800-2,400 sq feet.
3. It's not new.
4. These houses don't have media rooms, 3 car garages, and the bathooms and closets are smaller.
5. The school buildings are not new.
6. Some of the houses are occupied by folks who can barely afford it and they don't have the money to take care of major expenses like fence or window replacement.
7. Old people live in some of the houses.
8. It's not new.
9. Single people, some single parents, live in some of the houses.
10. No community ammenities. The only playground is at the school.
11. It's not new.
12. It doesn't have a brick wall around it.
13. The bike path is owned by the city instead of the community.
14. Some of the houses do not contain children.
15. It's not new.

[Grainraiser]

Many of us grew up in working class neighborhoods. The neighborhood I grew up in consisted of folks who worked for the Post office, large defense contractors, major manufactors etc. These folks lived in 1,200 sqft - 1,500 sqft homes and raised larger number of kids than we do today. The wife drove the newer car why the husband drove the paid off clunker. The majority of the folks in my neighborhood still live there. We have one guy that has a PHD and the other retired as a DISD administrator. This area is now considered the hood because it's older. The majority of the homes are still well maintained and the yards kept up. Many folks assume if it's not new it's the hood. Just because it's old does not mean it is the hood.

[Philip T]

Originally Posted by Lutalo

What does a Dallas ghetto look like??? Low income people hanging out at liquor stores is A-OK with me if its not violent, I dont really consider that ghetto. To me a ghetto is where you cant go out after 9 O'clock without being solicited for drugs/prostitution and you cant park your car on the street without it being smashed into.

Well, obviously there is plenty of liquor store rated areas. And I follow the OK-if-not-violent -- but Hood-Alcoholics-R-Us and Not-Violent are mutually exclusive. There is usually some deep mental illness mixed in -- and the Alcohol tends to be an easy obtained Self-Medication of Choice.

There are day-time hookers through plenty of the area, as well, no need to wait until 9 PM. The car-left-on-the-street without being broken into test would come up a Fail on a lot of the area, too.

But having been in the hood for too long now, we sort of sit and joke about it in a sad way. Was visiting with a neighbor just yesterday. Part of their business uses trucks and they get stolen out of their work side yard from time-to-time. Last time one got stolen from them, they crashed the fence between us, drove over my Bell Pepper plants and smashed out through my gate. We were doing a walk around yesterday, looking at how to make the sites more secure.

Point being it is not a older/smaller house, or lack a bike lane thingy. There are not even sidewalks here. The zombies walk in the street.

Interesting part of the conversation came to Law Enforcement. Dallas Law Enforcement is a total joke. Not the funny kind of joke, mind you. THAT is a large part of what makes the Hood the Hood. It does not "just happen." It is active neglect.

We were contrasting Highland Park (rich white folk area in the midst of Dallas, but a separate city) -- the neighbor had worked a project there a couple of weeks ago. Two blocks into Highland Park, he passed a cop and one block more and the cop had him pulled over seeing what he was doing there. Good Cops, doing their job. By contrast, I drove one Pickup Truck around Dallas for 10 years with No Tags.

In short -- No Law Enforcement = Easy for Criminals = Hood.

As far as some of the parts on this thread . . . the kids still come out to play, here -- it just looks different. Our kids are "threat trained." Any freak climbs over the fence and starts walking up the driveway (and they do) -- the kids do a headcount and RUN for the house, and yell to us. The kids see a wild dog (we have wild pit bulls that run the area). Same thing. Headcount, RUN to the house, and yell DOG. I shoot the wild dogs. Will probably start the same with the freaks.

[xS☺B☺s]

Excellent post Philip, thank you for relating your story. Jacob Riis would be proud.

[Lutalo]

Thanks for the information its been useful. Still everything is relative to ones comfort zone. I haven been to Dallas in about ten years, back when I lived in Killeen. What I dont understand is that on these realestate sites you have what appear to be large spacious maintained homes, which are cheap, in what many consider to be horrible areas.

One thing that "Bostonian08" may relate to, is that up here in the North East, bad neighborhoods look bad. I live in the second 'cheapest/poorest/ghetto' whatever term you want to use, section of Lowell MA. This winter sucks and I want to head back towards Texas and I've always liked Dallas.

[littlewmn]

iIve noticed that too-- the houses look karge and well maintained. Some of them were real bargain rentals in Urbandale area, I think. They look nice enough- but I was told by several people that the neighborhood is no-go.

[littlewmn]

The area was Greenwood Terrace