Weed is Good! (Denver, Aurora, Lakewood: sale, crime, transfer)
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The taxes on pot that everyone thinks will be a great source of revenue won't materialize anytime soon. In Colorado new taxes must be approved by the voters, the legislature can't just impose them. When it comes time to vote on the tax, the new (legal) marijuana dealers will use their money to mount a campaign against the new taxes -- even though they sold us this by saying it would generate tax revenue. Every user out there will vote against the taxes because they won't want to pay higher prices (no pun intended), and the state will be stuck with no new revenue trying to mitigate the expenses of regulating the new industry.
As for tourism, I don't see people coming to Colorado just so they can smoke pot. They can't take it back with them on the plane (what an awesome plane ride that will be, sitting next to a bunch of people with the stench of weed on their clothes), they can't smoke in public (per the amendment), and no hotel is going to let them smoke up in the room.
The industry opposing the excise taxes on pot runs contrary to how the marijuana industry within Colorado has operated so far. So far at every point that taxes have come up they have wanted the city and state to collect taxes on their businesses because it both legitimized their industry, and gave the government a stake in their success. As has been said repeatably and verified by third parties the legislature coming back to the people for a vote on this excise tax is how it had to work per TABOR. Alcohol and Tobacco both have excise taxes. For the industry to oppose an excise tax for marijuana at a juncture where it is still legally in a gray area would completely tear apart the argument that this is being regulated in the same manor as alcohol. So I do not see them being brazen enough to go back on their word and oppose these taxes when the legality of marijuana is still in question.
Tourism I agree is still an unknown area primarily because they cannot smoke it in public. I agree that major hotels are unlikely to allow it, but independent condos in mountain towns or smaller hotels/B&B's may. Additionally if the cities allow it I wouldn't be surprised if cafes/restaurants/bars/dispensaries setup rooms with separate ventilation that they can rent out to people for a short time frame. That's still just speculation obviously.
Last edited by robertgoodman; 11-08-2012 at 07:21 AM..
They threatened to with hold funds when some states refused to lower their speed limits back in the 70's early 80's to get them to comply with the federally mandated speed limit of 55mph..
Who knows. it's just an option they have.
Also threatened when they wanted an across the board legal drinking age of 21
The industry opposing the excise taxes on pot runs contrary to how the marijuana industry within Colorado has operated so far. So far at every point that taxes have come up they have wanted the city and state to collect taxes on their businesses because it both legitimized their industry, and gave the government a stake in their success. As has been said repeatably and verified by third parties the legislature coming back to the people for a vote on this excise tax is how it had to work per TABOR. Alcohol and Tobacco both have excise taxes. For the industry to oppose an excise tax for marijuana at a juncture where it is still legally in a gray area would completely tear apart the argument that this is being regulated in the same manor as alcohol. So I do not see them being brazen enough to go back on their word and oppose these taxes when the legality of marijuana is still in question.
Tourism I agree is still an unknown area primarily because they cannot smoke it in public. I agree that major hotels are unlikely to allow it, but independent condos in mountain towns or smaller hotels/B&B's may. Additionally if the cities allow it I wouldn't be surprised if cafes/restaurants/bars/dispensaries setup rooms with separate ventilation that they can rent out to people for a short time frame. That's still just speculation obviously.
True it's illegal to smoke in public and that doesn't stop some in downtown for sure. While I don't do it I support it for medical reasons. What I was offended by was a younger guy sitting in his car toking away in plain view with the door open and windows rolled down exhaling in the nice part of downtown. I take issue with that . It gives those that use it responsibly a real bad name. 16th street mall between the mentally ill homeless and the pot smoke is becoming less desirable with every month.
I will re-state we need a red light district like European cities have to control it. We don't need people firing up and having the cops looking the other way like they have on some occasions because it does give Denver a bad image when that happens. I think it should be done similar to Amsterdam you go buy and if you want to light up there it's fine in the coffee shop or dispensary. A safe zone that would allow people to use it on demand instead of doing out in public. And sure there are issues with my idea for sure. Many Europeans walk more than the drive so frankly I don't know how would would work that out.
I will re-state we need a red light district like European cities have to control it.
Right. I nominate the area around Federal and I-70 in the Denver metro for that district, the Nevada and south of I-25 area, all of Widefield and parts of Fountain for the CSprings metro area, and all of East-of-the-river 4th Street north to 8th Street and south to Santa Fe but not east of the Lanes and all of Bessemer for the Pueblo Metro area to be those designated "districts".
Oh, if you own property and/or if there's elementary/middle schools in those areas, too bad. Move you and your children to the "good parts" of town.
Why would we go to all of this trouble? Because we're entitled to our pain!!!!! Oops! Did I say that out loud? Let me rephrase that; because the recreational drug users have rights too. And besides that, there's money to be made! New slogans for our public schools! Could you imagine that?
Stand up for what you believe in. Thanks for voting, Colorado.
True it's illegal to smoke in public and that doesn't stop some in downtown for sure. While I don't do it I support it for medical reasons. What I was offended by was a younger guy sitting in his car toking away in plain view with the door open and windows rolled down exhaling in the nice part of downtown. I take issue with that . It gives those that use it responsibly a real bad name. 16th street mall between the mentally ill homeless and the pot smoke is becoming less desirable with every month.
I will re-state we need a red light district like European cities have to control it. We don't need people firing up and having the cops looking the other way like they have on some occasions because it does give Denver a bad image when that happens. I think it should be done similar to Amsterdam you go buy and if you want to light up there it's fine in the coffee shop or dispensary. A safe zone that would allow people to use it on demand instead of doing out in public. And sure there are issues with my idea for sure. Many Europeans walk more than the drive so frankly I don't know how would would work that out.
16th Street Mall is not that bad I live blocks from there and go there daily. The mentally ill/homeless leave me alone since they have interacted with me in the past and know I do not put up with their BS (almost all of them do not touch pot). Honestly I have seen only a few pot smokers in public on the mall in my years living here. So I am having a hard time figuring out where you are going that is so different that you are seeing so many areas being degraded by marijuana. Granted the mall is over a mile long and has different characters throughout so it's possible we are seeing different things.
I do think your red light district is a good idea if it is feasible. The amendment clearly puts the onus on the city/county as to where and if they want to allow these places to exist within the city limits. If you are that convinced that it's a good idea for a marijuana district contact your city councilperson. However their is one major obstacle with this marijuana district idea: you need to find a a neighborhood that will be accepting and suited for this. The areas you are complaining about (Downtown/LoDo/Colfax/Broadway) IMO are the ones most suited for this type of district. Personally I would think the best place for it would be near Broadway/downtown in RiNo since it has the right demographics, no schools, is near transportation/hotels, and is a former industrial area. But Montero and Brooks would likely fight a district like that in RiNo. People may want pot to be legal (2/3rds in Denver) but that does not mean they will be okay with transforming an area near them into a pot mecca.
Last edited by robertgoodman; 11-08-2012 at 10:01 AM..
Hmm. I work downtown and I smell pot EVERY DAY on my journey from Civic Center to my office. I don't know; I generally support the legalization of marijuana, though I feel like the Medical Marijuana industry here is a joke; basically, I see it as something that diverged from its original intent. Everyone who wants a card can get one, easily, as I have friends who have done this -- and I'm not talking about people with major medical issues, just people who lied about having chronic headaches or other pain. I see it and smell it every day and honestly, I don't like it. But then again, I don't like smelling cigarette smoke, either. It will be interesting to see if marijuana ends up being treated more like cigarettes (which are allowed to be smoked in public), or alcohol (which technically, i'm not supposed to walk down the street while holding an open can of beer) as this whole legalization thing starts up.
I guess I'll just also add that while I love(d) Denver, I'm having second thoughts on whether or not this is a place I really want to stay, longer-term. I'm not knocking it -- just re-evaluating whether or not Denver and Colorado is really for me.
Last edited by cowboyxjon; 11-08-2012 at 10:26 AM..
16th Street Mall is not that bad I live blocks from there and go there daily. The mentally ill/homeless leave me alone since they have interacted with me in the past and know I do not put up with their BS (almost all of them do not touch pot). Honestly I have seen only a few pot smokers in public on the mall in my years living here. So I am having a hard time figuring out where you are going that is so different that you are seeing so many areas being degraded by marijuana. Granted the mall is over a mile long and has different characters throughout so it's possible we are seeing different things.
I do think your red light district is a good idea if it is feasible. The amendment clearly puts the onus on the city/county as to where and if they want to allow these places to exist within the city limits. If you are that convinced that it's a good idea for a marijuana district contact your city councilperson. However their is one major obstacle with this marijuana district idea: you need to find a a neighborhood that will be accepting and suited for this. The areas you are complaining about (Downtown/LoDo/Colfax/Broadway) IMO are the ones most suited for this type of district. Personally I would think the best place for it would be near Broadway/downtown in RiNo since it has the right demographics, no schools, is near transportation/hotels, and is a former industrial area. But Montero and Brooks would likely fight a district like that in RiNo. People may want pot to be legal (2/3rds in Denver) but that does not mean they will be okay with transforming an area near them into a pot mecca.
Yeah but you and I both recall the valet that was attacked violently some months ago by one of those a mentally ill people. The guy I was referring to smoking pot in his car in broad daylight was about a year ago on 18th and California, and every time my wife and I go to the Parade of Lights I smell plenty of it. Heck I noticed when I was in DTC people leaving the comedy club lighting up and driving away earlier this year. I have friends that do it responsibly at home so I have no problem with legalization it just needs to be much better controlled. When I drive down Alameda off Broadway and there are 3-5 dispensaries within in 1/4 mile that's a problem IMO.
No ,Montana thought they could off set it with their wealth of coal and crude oil,
but they caved in when the feds were going to with hold highway funds if they didn't lower their speed limit.
The tax from MJ will not off set the funds CO gets from the FED
Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover
Lol! The clock is ticking before the funds dry up in Washington, DC, thru default on our sovereign debt, and? What other threat will they be using?
Won't the additional tourist income and taxes cancel out the withholding of funds?
To date, 17 states have passed medical marijuana laws, yet very little is known about their effects. The current study examines the relationship between the legalization of medical marijuana and traffic fatalities, the leading cause of death among Americans ages 5 through 34. The first full year after coming into effect, legalization is associated with an 8 to 11 percent decrease in traffic fatalities. The impact of legalization on traffic fatalities involving alcohol is larger and estimated with more precision than its impact on traffic fatalities that do not involve alcohol. Legalization is also associated with sharp decreases in the price of marijuana and alcohol consumption, suggesting that marijuana and alcohol are substitutes. Because alternative mechanisms cannot be ruled out, the negative relationship between legalization and alcohol-related traffic fatalities does not necessarily imply that driving under the influence of marijuana is safer than driving under the influence of alcohol.
Yeah but you and I both recall the valet that was attacked violently some months ago by one of those a mentally ill people. The guy I was referring to smoking pot in his car in broad daylight was about a year ago on 18th and California, and every time my wife and I go to the Parade of Lights I smell plenty of it. Heck I noticed when I was in DTC people leaving the comedy club lighting up and driving away earlier this year. I have friends that do it responsibly at home so I have no problem with legalization it just needs to be much better controlled. When I drive down Alameda off Broadway and there are 3-5 dispensaries within in 1/4 mile that's a problem IMO.
Of course I recall that stabbing, but it still does not change my opinion that most of the mentally ill are harmless and will leave you alone if you treat them properly. Also by not putting up with their BS I did not mean in a violent way. I meant not putting up with their rants or begging.
How we treat the mentally ill in this country is an embarrassment, and also is a much different issue than marijuana. It is not isolated to Denver but the central downtowns tend to be metro area dumping grounds for the mentally ill. Since the center city will have most of the services, and the suburbs tend to have very little services if any at all. This results in suburban police forces taking the homeless/mentally ill to the central downtowns (Have seen Aurora, Westminster, and Lakewood cops each do this at least once), or they come to downtown of their own volition realizing it is in their best interest. The central city services get overwhelmed in times like these, and the result is that mentally ill people end up on the street (or now most of them hiding under bridges since we made that illegal). However downtown is still a very desirable place for me to live in despite that, and I feel perfectly comfortable here just like I still feel comfortable watching movies at a theater in the suburbs.
In agreement that smoking pot in public should be illegal, and it still is under state law. It needs to be enforced at least as rigorously as the open container laws, and I am sure efforts to do that will occur if people continue to flaunt that law.
I see no problem with having that many dispensaries near Broadway and Alameda. I guarantee you a few of them will go out of business eventually by market forces, and I am assuming they are complying with the distance from school provisions that the legislature passed. So no problems from my perspective.
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