Will Denver ever build a subway system? (Frisco: mover, buses)

[Parkerlewis33]

I think nearly everyone here would love to see streetcar lines running through the streets of Denver, but breaking through the politics is easier said than done. Colfax may not have the ideal width for a streetcar line, but I think a lot of people on this forum are sickened by what is most likely going to be forced on us. I live 20 miles from downtown Denver and I would be more than happy to pay increased taxes for streetcar lines as I know it will certainly help my municipality as well. The problem is that I am probably one in a very few that feel that way outside the urban core. Not that Denver can't do it on it's own. It just makes the politics more difficult when a smaller base of the population is involved in the financing.

The only place I can see a subway line happening in Denver is from Union Station to Civic Center with the ability to expand the 1.5 miles south to I-25. I think getting both the south lines and Union Station transfers through the CBD much quicker is the ONLY way to sell that plan. Personally I think the shuttles are going to max out sooner than most people want to admit, so that helps too. If the population and office space continue to boom downtown then maybe we could justify cut and cover to the general public? Energy prices will increase, but that's not much help unless its an unforeseen increase. I'm not against planning for the future, but unfortunately Denver is still very auto oriented and that makes subway lines pie in the sky. Similar to a light rail line along the Diagonal. Anyway, elevated lines aren't going to happen in Denver... period. Maybe you can blend an elevated line in along Speer, but the Country Club area is not even worth discussing. It would have been great if they had planned for elevated lines by leaving some right away behind Broadway and Lincoln facing buildings, but that didn't happen. I think we will be fine with our mix of light rail, commuter rail and street c... I mean kinda BRT lines.

[livecontent]

Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly

I think you're a little confused with what I'm trying to say. When I mean subway systems, I'm not only talking about underground stations but elevated rapid transit stations as well. In North America, most subway systems are underground at the core and then have elevated stations in the outer sections of the city. Cities like NYC, Chicago, Philly, and Washington DC are great examples of that. When it comes to Denver, I'm not excluding subway lines that elevate outside the core(downtown). Did I clear that up for you?

Just in case you are still confused, here is an visual example from my hometown of Philadelphia.

MFL Blue Line (underground) station

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LmExW2Mfaw

MFL Blue Line (elevated) station

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGpEpq9TPaU

Now you are talking about an elevated train. What is your point. You are no expert. You do not live here. You have not spend decades working on the plans for this system like many of us have done.

You are the one confused and need to stop this BS. An elevated train is built for the same reason as a subway because the city is dense and has valuable building in place but in addition, these cities already have heavy auto traffic and a train on the ground would conflict too much with that heavy traffic flow, so that many times you see elevated trains over streets.

Also, you keep making a point that these cities build the subways, in the past, to plan for the future, hundreds of years in the future--they build them to get from point A to point B because trolleys and buses were become insufficient for public transit.

I am familiar with your area as I am a New Yorker. We are not the same city.

Livecontent

[denverian]

Originally Posted by davebarnes

No!
And, RTD will mostly be gone by 2070. Killed by driverless cars.

Awesome! I'll be 100 then, so probably best that my car is driverless

[Mire]

You'll only be 100 if the Ebola doesn't get you first.

[Timmyy]

[Willy702]

OP, is there a way for us to auto-post a simple "NO" every time you start this nonsense in a new forum? Have you found any forum where they didn't chase you off telling you to stop posting this nonsense? Subways are dead in all but the largest, most dense areas of the largest cities of the world. Yes China keeps building them because guess what, China has some of the largest and most densely populated cities in the world.

[zenkonami]

I could see one happening under Colfax...BUT, only if there was A LOT of money to blow...and there simply isn't...and there won't be. Having one down 16th Street would be pointless unless it was an extension on the Colfax line and only served Civic Center, MAYBE California/Stout, and Union Station. Otherwise, that's the only corridor I can think of that could use it. Broadway is fairly well served by light rail and the 0 (in addition to having width...an advantage if they ever want to expand ROW down Broadway proper), Speer/Cherry Creek/Leetsdale just doesn't support that kind of traffic yet (the 79 and 83 manage fine) and...well really that's it.

But again, the expense is too much. Also, we are a much more outdoors city than many others...encouraging cycling and alternate transport that is not as conducive to subways.

I think current plans for the Colfax corridor are poor at best (without some kind of dedicated ROW, as I've said many times, there is no point in expanding into streetcars or BRT), but I don't see something like this happening anytime in the near future.

[gwillyfromphilly]

Originally Posted by Willy702

OP, is there a way for us to auto-post a simple "NO" every time you start this nonsense in a new forum? Have you found any forum where they didn't chase you off telling you to stop posting this nonsense?

Not only were these types of threads I created popular, I personally got direct messages from posters who appreciated the thread topics.

Subways are dead in all but the largest, most dense areas of the largest cities of the world. Yes China keeps building them because guess what, China has some of the largest and most densely populated cities in the world.

You're wrong. There are plenty of other countries that are currently building subway systems that range in population size and density levels.

https://sites.google.com/site/metros...r-construction

[davidv]

Denver will never build a subway because:
a) The population is too fiscally conservative and any sort of tax increase requires a vote of the people. People here will not support spending billions on the construction of a subway.

b) Denver does not have the density to support a subway system.

c) There is enough land to build surface light rail lines. Even on the busiest of streets (Colorado, Speer, etc) a surface solution is possible, but those areas won't even see any sort of rail for decades. Why? See answer "a."

[Willy702]

Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly

Not only were these types of threads I created popular, I personally got direct messages from posters who appreciated the thread topics.


You're wrong. There are plenty of other countries that are currently building subway systems that range in population size and density levels.

https://sites.google.com/site/metros...r-construction

Most of them are light rail systems, a few with a portion of the lines going underground. So would you call it a "subway" if at some point Denver built a 2-mile underground section to go under downtown? Seattle has a nice underground tunnel of its newer light rail (and regular buses) that runs for a couple miles downtown, but the rest is little different from Denver light rail. Do you call Seattle's system a subway for that reason?