For suburban residents only

[bullfish15]

Originally Posted by wanttomoveeast

Free to do what? Ruin our atmosphere, ruin our society, just do whatever because you think you are "free"? Sorry, but your inherent rights aren't meant to destroy the rest of society. I was so disappointed to see your post. Proof to me that some people no longer will take responsibility for themselves or hold themselves to any type of self-accountability.

I am curious, wanttomoveeast, How do you construe driving where and when one wants to into "ruining society"? Please tell me that you haven't drank the global warming kool-aid. Contrary to Al Gore's propagandistic talking points the debate has not been seatled with global warming. The debate is alive and well because global warming is bad science with very unscientific research that is extremely politically motivated. This topic will not be seatled on the forums nor anywhere else for that matter. I don't want to see this thread be hijacked into a global warming frenzy.

But I would love to hear your input. What do you mean that people will not take responsibility for themselves and hold themselves accountable? To whom should we be held accountable? What should we be held accountable for? What changes to freedom would you support to further your cause, and who should enforce it?

[DenverLawGal]

Bullfish: I had this nice long post typed out and then lost it somehow. So here's my chance to shorten it.

First, your assumption that "construe driving where and when one wants to into "ruining society" is incorrect. I did not make that statement and I do not believe that statement. In fact, I was responding to your post which stated "Who cares what they drive". Notice how you say what, not where and when??

I do, however, believe that driving gas guzzling SUV's and trucks hurts us in many ways. Purchasing such vehicles just so that you can feel like king of the road is greedy and obnoxious. Some people actually have a use for those vehicles and for that reason alone I believe it's ok to buy them.

The global warming kool-aid as you call it is what I call as opening one's mind, and educating yourself. If you choose to ignore studies scientific and the like, that's your business.

To answer your last paragraph, see below (answers in red):

1. What do you mean that people will not take responsibility for themselves and hold themselves accountable? I mean that by purchasing vehicles you cannot afford, trucks and SUV's that guzzle far more gas than what the rest of us are using, means to me that absolutely no personal accountability is present. This is a society and as such, people that ignore others and just do whatever they want are seen by me as selfish, greedy and obnoxious.

2. To whom should we be held accountable? What should we be held accountable for? You should be accountable by the society you live in and most importantly yourself. If you choose not to hold yourself accountable, well then, I suppose you are lacking severe character flaws IMHO. You should be held accountable for your actions. And why all of a sudden do I feel like I'm talking to a 3rd grader?

3.What changes to freedom would you support to further your cause, and who should enforce it? I don't have a cause. I worry about my own problems, and try not to judge others. I try to help others, and do my share to not partake in the destruction of this earth. Yep, I said it, earth, the mass of planet that we ALL live in, not just you. I think it's sad we need someone to enforce personal accountability. As far as changes to freedom, I feel like we as US citizens have quite a bit of freedom, some migth think too much.

I hope this answers your questions.

[movementarian]

Driving a giant car like a Hummer may be selfish or socially irresponsible, but it's not against the law. If people want laws to keep certain classes of cars off the road, they can push for those more socialist changes. It's doubtful anything like that would ever materialize. America is more about the free-market and individual freedoms than other countries. That's the beauty of this great country (and well, sometimes the curse). You can drive a giant gas guzzler if you want or a tiny foreign car if that's your thing. You can live in a "McMansion" if you want or a commune if that's your thing. USA! USA! USA!

[DenverLawGal]

Who said driving a hoggish ride was against the law? Geez, please actually take the time to read the preceding posts. And we wonder where the term rude american comes from. Earth! Earth! Earth!

[movementarian]

Are you questioning my patriotism? What part of "USA! USA! USA!" doesn't make sense? Listen, my grandfather fought in World War II against the Japanese & Germans to protect our ability to all drive Toyotas & Volkswagens.

OK, that's not entirely true, he was stationed in Denver the whole time. But I don't recall hearing anything about Japanese soldiers occupying Lakewood or Nazi soldiers invading Aurora.

I read your post and agreed with it. I read all the posts in the forum. The questions being asked mention responsibility, accountability, freedom, and enforcement. Since laws sets some boundaries on these things, it's an appropriate thing to talk about when considering the morality of a gas guzzling car. Hey, I'm trying to live on a commune and ride a bike for transportation. So someone owning a 1500+ sqft house and a ford focus seem pretty irresponsible to me. Should those people feel some shame?

Look, I don't like big gas guzzlers more than anyone else. In fact, if I could ban a class of car, I'd consider the SUV right after the BMW 3 series - I'm so sick of those 30-something, 3 series driving, yuppie jerks speeding past and cutting me off. Damn them and their high performance German engineering!

[steveindenver]

So someone owning a 1500+ sqft house and a ford focus seem pretty irresponsible to me. Should those people feel some shame?

Depends on the energy needs of said house which includes the location and proximity to services. Both are items with strong ties to energy prices and both have long been artificially subsidized by the government, federal, state and local, to the point of irresponsibility.

U.S. citizens are fantastic and creating "rights" out of thin air.

[DenverLawGal]

Nope, not questioning your patriotism at all. Both of my grandparents (grandfather was a chemist, grandmother a medic) also fought in WWII.

I think this thread is going out of it's original realm. With that said, I'm out.