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Going back to Tekkie's point, if those are all the places you have been to, you should travel a little more.
Try going some of the cities that Tekkie mentioned. Keep an open mind.
I know on this forum sometimes I am overly harsh about metro Detroit, but the reality of the situation is that it doesn't have the big city amenities that other cities has. Yes, Detroit has nice suburbs, but what major city doesn't? Obviously you can't compare rural Iowa with metro Detroit, but Detroit is probably at the bottom of the list compared to other major cities.
The cost of living is one of the major highlights of the Detroit area. With that said, there are other cities like Denver which cost slightly more than Detroit that has much more to offer. Cities like Houston, Dallas, Austin have lower COL and has much more to offer.
Yes Detroit is making some sort of comeback, but this comeback might take decades. If Detroit's decline took 4-5 decades to "bottom out", what makes you think that Detroit's comeback can be done in 5 or10 years? Why not live somewhere where you DON'T have to wait to enjoy the amenities?
Lastly, I donno if anyone else noticed, but have you noticed how almost everyone that you work with (other than 1st generation immigrants) grew up in the Metro D area or their significant other grew up in the Metro Detroit area?
You can live somewhere where you ride the coattails of the hard work of others (every great city today had a downward spiral and was rejuvenated by hard working risk takers) or you can be part of the change taking place around you. You can't make that decision for other people, nor should you dissuade people who have that passion in them.
Not saying that moving away from your homeland is a bad idea.
xfactor85, how long have you been posting negatively about Detroit? When are you going to finally make the leap and move to another city? If you're making excuses for yourself as to why you haven't done it yet, then you have a hard time having any credibility saying bad things about your fellow metro Detroiters.
Do it, move if you're miserable. You only have one life.
You can live somewhere where you ride the coattails of the hard work of others (every great city today had a downward spiral and was rejuvenated by hard working risk takers) or you can be part of the change taking place around you. You can't make that decision for other people, nor should you dissuade people who have that passion in them.
Going back to a point that 313Weather made in another thread, some people would rather not spend their prime years cleaning up decades worth of messes caused by prior generations. I'm guessing that many of us are in our mid to late 20s. Are we supposed to stick around for the next 20 years or so hoping for this miraculous turn around to finally happen? Many of us don't have the resources to do much other than to volunteer on a few clean up projects here and there and patronize small, local businesses from time to time. It's not like the majority of us have the ability to be game changers.
I moved away for five years and ultimately made the choice to give it another go in the "D". Nobody else (outside of Detroit) could figure out why I'd even want to go back there. But I had this radical idea that things were going to be different this time. Was it? Nope. The economy is till pretty lackluster. The suburbanites still hate the "D" and avoid it at all costs. And on a lesser note, the weather is terrible (I know you have no control over that). I couldn't find a decent paying job in close to a year there (and I hated my last job, so I was trying hard). That was with five years of experience in the field and a degree from your ever-so-coveted U of M-Ann Arbor. It took a former manager to recruit me the heck out of dodge and back to Denver.
Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan
You only have one life.
Exactly. So why live it in squalor? No offense, but many of us don't have time to wait for the "Great Turnaround" that's been talked about for the past 30 some years. I need to make money so I can pay off these college loans, buy a house, and start a family sometime.
So you're saying that people move to where the jobs are, not to where the most unjustifiably high levels of optimism are? I wonder if Indentured Servant knows about this?
Going back to a point that 313Weather made in another thread, some people would rather not spend their prime years cleaning up decades worth of messes caused by prior generations. I'm guessing that many of us are in our mid to late 20s. Are we supposed to stick around for the next 20 years or so hoping for this miraculous turn around to finally happen? Many of us don't have the resources to do much other than to volunteer on a few clean up projects here and there and patronize small, local businesses from time to time. It's not like the majority of us have the ability to be game changers.
I moved away for five years and ultimately made the choice to give it another go in the "D". Nobody else (outside of Detroit) could figure out why I'd even want to go back there. But I had this radical idea that things were going to be different this time. Was it? Nope. The economy is till pretty lackluster. The suburbanites still hate the "D" and avoid it at all costs. And on a lesser note, the weather is terrible (I know you have no control over that). I couldn't find a decent paying job in close to a year there (and I hated my last job, so I was trying hard). That was with five years of experience in the field and a degree from your ever-so-coveted U of M-Ann Arbor. It took a former manager to recruit me the heck out of dodge and back to Denver.
Exactly. So why live it in squalor? No offense, but many of us don't have time to wait for the "Great Turnaround" that's been talked about for the past 30 some years. I need to make money so I can pay off these college loans, buy a house, and start a family sometime.
I hear that but that's unfortunate. One of the positive things I hear from people in their late 20's and 30's in Grand Rapids is that it's relatively easy to feel like you're making a difference. You can join boards and committees, there's an endless number of neighborhood input sessions and hearings on everything from parks to streets to good design, there are an endless number of events you can attend on everything from starting a tech company to giving back to the community. I think those opportunities have kept the city at a steady population count, and have completely revitalized huge swaths of the city and downtown. Developers like to know they're not risking everything by doing a project, and that they have the support and enthusiasm of the residents.
I know Detroit has some fledgling efforts like that, and they're growing slowly. But I can only imagine how completely frustrating it is in Detroit. And it's much bigger with probably a lot of neppitism.
As you said, cities like Denver are turn-key. Buy a condo, find a job, buy a T-Rex transit pass and away you go. You have a good life in a growing beautiful city with pretty good weather. But I know a lot of people who have tried that route and found it pretty vacant of meaning. I could be wrong but I don't think 20 years from now you'll look at something in Denver and feel like "I had a hand in making a change on that project." I could be wrong.
But everyone who grew up in the Detroit area and Michigan should live somewhere else for at least a few years. It's healthy.
Going back to Tekkie's point, if those are all the places you have been to, you should travel a little more.
Try going some of the cities that Tekkie mentioned. Keep an open mind.
I know on this forum sometimes I am overly harsh about metro Detroit, but the reality of the situation is that it doesn't have the big city amenities that other cities has. Yes, Detroit has nice suburbs, but what major city doesn't? Obviously you can't compare rural Iowa with metro Detroit, but Detroit is probably at the bottom of the list compared to other major cities.
The cost of living is one of the major highlights of the Detroit area. With that said, there are other cities like Denver which cost slightly more than Detroit that has much more to offer. Cities like Houston, Dallas, Austin have lower COL and has much more to offer.
Yes Detroit is making some sort of comeback, but this comeback might take decades. If Detroit's decline took 4-5 decades to "bottom out", what makes you think that Detroit's comeback can be done in 5 or10 years? Why not live somewhere where you DON'T have to wait to enjoy the amenities?
Lastly, I donno if anyone else noticed, but have you noticed how almost everyone that you work with (other than 1st generation immigrants) grew up in the Metro D area or their significant other grew up in the Metro Detroit area?
You constantly state this, please explain, what "big city amenities" is Detroit missing out on??? Just curious.
Those are fair points, and I don't doubt there are others that feel the way you do. But you & they make up a small percentage of the total population, from my experience.
The school comment needs some qualifiers. Yes, there are some great private schools and so-called "magnet" schools, but can you honestly say that inner city public schools are "excellent"? That is where most children go to.
I'm basing my comments on what most people or a typical/average person would do, not the elite.
Well, okay. I guess I'm basing my schools comment on my experience growing up in Toronto and Montreal. So maybe you're right. Maybe most public schools in most US city cores are NOT good. I don't know (though I do find it hard to believe that there are no good public schools anywhere in the cities proper of, say, New York - other than Manhattan - or Boston).
But if Detroiters want to be a part of the renaissance of Detroit, then they have to support its public schools in their revitalization efforts. Again, fleeing to the suburbs and cocooning ourselves there while letting the city (and its public schools) go to hell in a handbasket doesn't work.That kind of detached, inward-looking, self-absorbed worldview will be the undoing of ANY metropolitan area. Detroit history tells us that.
Speaking as someone who just relocated to Michigan from Japan for work (originally from Los Angeles), I gotta say I'm really enjoying myself.
Seeing all the doom and gloom in this forum before I arrived had me a bit nervous to say the least, but I'm just not seeing all those negatives traits everyone preaches about here.
People saying this area is dead and has no activity? Well I moved to Ann Arbor and I can tell you it's completely lit up with activity on what seems like a nightly basis. Heck, I was driving home from a Wings game yesterday and even at 12am the area was packed! I'm loving this area!
Speaking of the Wings, I've gone to about 3 games already and have had an absolute blast. The crowd, the atmosphere, the unity is amazing. I ventured the Staples Center in downtown LA quite a lot and the type of people just don't compare. There you have people wearing different sports jerseys to hockey games, yelling obscene language in front of kids, spitting on you for sporting a different jersey (personal experience) and just creating an unpleasant atmosphere. I never felt more home than I did at the Joe (but yeah, a new arena wouldn't hurt). Those in the area who haven't gone are really missing out.
In regards to the urban core of Detroit, again by following a lot of what's written on here, I was worried to even drive NEAR the city, let alone park my car and go to an event there. But taking the shuttle from Hockeytown to the Joe and passing by what seemed like tons of packed bars/restaurants/lounges, an ice skating rink full of people, buildings which were lit up and seemed very new, luxury hotels with cars lined up to get into, and lots of foot traffic, I kept thinking to myself "this is not what I was seeing online..." I'm sure things get very bad once you leave downtown, but that area around where the spirit of detroit is seemed like a pretty damn good urban area to me.
Weather is bad? Yeah it's pretty cold, but so is most of the mid west and east coasts. If your idea of good weather is 90 degrees in mid January, than by all means, move to LA. The lack of seasonal changes get's old really fast. I'm loving waking up to a snowy saturday morning .
Without going on for too much longer, my main points are that there seems like there's plenty to do in the Metro area, the people are very nice, much nicer than many of those I encountered in LA, the atmosphere is just overall much more pleasant, and I'm not regretting my decision in the least.
Oh, and I'm also really liking the European type of housing structure too. I'm used to living in an area where most houses look like this:
Yes, inner city public schools in the U.S. are quite bad overall. I didn't realize that was not universally known. I understand what you are saying about fleeing the city and all that, but unless you experienced it yourself you would not believe it. Many of the schools and neighborhoods in Detroit are deplorable (note I did not say all, so all you cheerleaders don't accuse me of being a hater. I'm honest.). Even the residents of Detroit are pulling their kids out of the public schools and sending them to charter schools and "open district" suburban schools.
You constantly state this, please explain, what "big city amenities" is Detroit missing out on??? Just curious.
I won't answer for xfactor, but here are some things I've noticed about Detroit:
Unreliable/unsafe public transit system that connects entire metro area.
Lack of safe, vibrant, walkable neighborhoods. And not just downtown. I'm sure even Camden and Compton can boast a relatively safe downtown. All the surrounding neighborhoods should be safe and walkable with things to do.
Needs a more walkable downtown. Everything is so fragmented in the downtown core. You pretty much have to drive to get from one decent neighborhood to another. Either improve public transit or make it more walkable.
Needs more jobs, jobs, jobs. And good paying ones at that.
Bring the Pistons downtown for crying out loud. It's so stupid that they play 40 minutes outside of Detroit. It's my belief that your major sports teams should be in the downtown core or very close to it. Just my opinion though.
I know they've been working on it, but keep plugging away at building up recreational activities in the city. The skating rink at Campus Martius and dedicated bike paths around the city are a great start. Keep it up. I'd just add more parks in the city. Isn't it the Rouge Park that's one of the biggest in the city? Clean that up along with Belle Isle and you'll have a couple of gems.
Young professionals want to play after they're done working. Keep providing them access to that and they will come. I mean, if Minneapolis can attract them, so can Detroit.
Needs a more walkable downtown. Everything is so fragmented in the downtown core.
Bring the Pistons downtown for crying out loud.
Aren't these statements contradictory? Does plopping down a stadium improve or inhibit walkability?
I agree with your other points, especially the parks. I'm just not a favor of stadiums in the downtown area.
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I wonder if Indentured Servant knows about this?
. 
I'd just add more parks in the city. Isn't it the Rouge Park that's one of the biggest in the city? Clean that up along with Belle Isle and you'll have a couple of gems. 
