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Speaking as someone who just relocated to Michigan from Japan for work (originally from Los Angeles), I gotta say I'm really enjoying myself.
Seeing all the doom and gloom in this forum before I arrived had me a bit nervous to say the least, but I'm just not seeing all those negatives traits everyone preaches about here.
People saying this area is dead and has no activity? Well I moved to Ann Arbor and I can tell you it's completely lit up with activity on what seems like a nightly basis. Heck, I was driving home from a Wings game yesterday and even at 12am the area was packed! I'm loving this area!
Speaking of the Wings, I've gone to about 3 games already and have had an absolute blast. The crowd, the atmosphere, the unity is amazing. I ventured the Staples Center in downtown LA quite a lot and the type of people just don't compare. There you have people wearing different sports jerseys to hockey games, yelling obscene language in front of kids, spitting on you for sporting a different jersey (personal experience) and just creating an unpleasant atmosphere. I never felt more home than I did at the Joe (but yeah, a new arena wouldn't hurt). Those in the area who haven't gone are really missing out.
In regards to the urban core of Detroit, again by following a lot of what's written on here, I was worried to even drive NEAR the city, let alone park my car and go to an event there. But taking the shuttle from Hockeytown to the Joe and passing by what seemed like tons of packed bars/restaurants/lounges, an ice skating rink full of people, buildings which were lit up and seemed very new, luxury hotels with cars lined up to get into, and lots of foot traffic, I kept thinking to myself "this is not what I was seeing online..." I'm sure things get very bad once you leave downtown, but that area around where the spirit of detroit is seemed like a pretty damn good urban area to me.
Um, cphil, you live in Ann Arbor. I am the first to admit (as I've stated in a previous post) that AA is an awesome place. I loved it. When we lived in Detroit, I begged my husband multiple times to leave the suburb we were in to move to AA. Unfortunately, that never happened. I think my take of Metro Detroit would have been entirely different had we moved there as soon as we arrived in Michigan. In fact, I'd say that we might even still still be there.
AA is lively and diverse, with people of all types and ages walking and biking around at all times. Just what I'm used to. And I'm glad that your experiences in downtown Detroit have been pleasant (I attended grad school at Wayne State, which I enjoyed, and I never found the city to be scary as much as I found it to be rather bleak). But AA is a healthy, independent entity within Metro Detroit. Quite frankly, there is Ann Arbor, and then there is the rest of Metro Detroit (ROMD). I'm sure if you spend more time driving around other suburbs, you'll find them to be very pretty (and certainly affluent), but they don't hold a candle to AA.
Last edited by newdixiegirl; 02-01-2014 at 11:26 AM..
Yes, inner city public schools in the U.S. are quite bad overall. I didn't realize that was not universally known. I understand what you are saying about fleeing the city and all that, but unless you experienced it yourself you would not believe it. Many of the schools and neighborhoods in Detroit are deplorable (note I did not say all, so all you cheerleaders don't accuse me of being a hater. I'm honest.). Even the residents of Detroit are pulling their kids out of the public schools and sending them to charter schools and "open district" suburban schools.
Yes, the state of US inner city schools is universally known. I am, and always was aware of it, but I'm just not one to think that they're all so bad that people should write them off. To do so is self-defeating in terms of a city's well-being.
I think there is a bit of chicken-and-egg conundrum at work in the delineation and segregation of city and suburb. Did people flee Detroit because the city and schools had deteriorated to the extent that mass exodus - and subsequent psychological abandonment - was the only option? Or was it that the city and schools have degenerated into their current "deplorable" conditions because suburbanites chose to turn away?
My experience living in suburban Detroit tells me that the city's conditions are more the unfortunate, but inevitable, result of the latter scenario than the former.
What would you propose suburbanites do to improve the schools? We have a hard enough time running our own schools.
Honestly, there is not a whole lot that can be done. Many (again, not all) of the children have behavioral problems, learning disabilities, dysfunctional families, health problems, etc. There is tremendous mismanagement, waste, and overhead. I believe there are more administrators in the Detroit Public School system than there are teachers. No amount of "suburban lovin" is going to change that. And if the suburbs did offer to help, they would be met with accusations of "takeover by the white man".
Speaking as someone who just relocated to Michigan from Japan for work (originally from Los Angeles), I gotta say I'm really enjoying myself.
Seeing all the doom and gloom in this forum before I arrived had me a bit nervous to say the least, but I'm just not seeing all those negatives traits everyone preaches about here.
People saying this area is dead and has no activity? Well I moved to Ann Arbor and I can tell you it's completely lit up with activity on what seems like a nightly basis. Heck, I was driving home from a Wings game yesterday and even at 12am the area was packed! I'm loving this area!
Speaking of the Wings, I've gone to about 3 games already and have had an absolute blast. The crowd, the atmosphere, the unity is amazing. I ventured the Staples Center in downtown LA quite a lot and the type of people just don't compare. There you have people wearing different sports jerseys to hockey games, yelling obscene language in front of kids, spitting on you for sporting a different jersey (personal experience) and just creating an unpleasant atmosphere. I never felt more home than I did at the Joe (but yeah, a new arena wouldn't hurt). Those in the area who haven't gone are really missing out.
In regards to the urban core of Detroit, again by following a lot of what's written on here, I was worried to even drive NEAR the city, let alone park my car and go to an event there. But taking the shuttle from Hockeytown to the Joe and passing by what seemed like tons of packed bars/restaurants/lounges, an ice skating rink full of people, buildings which were lit up and seemed very new, luxury hotels with cars lined up to get into, and lots of foot traffic, I kept thinking to myself "this is not what I was seeing online..." I'm sure things get very bad once you leave downtown, but that area around where the spirit of detroit is seemed like a pretty damn good urban area to me.
Weather is bad? Yeah it's pretty cold, but so is most of the mid west and east coasts. If your idea of good weather is 90 degrees in mid January, than by all means, move to LA. The lack of seasonal changes get's old really fast. I'm loving waking up to a snowy saturday morning .
Without going on for too much longer, my main points are that there seems like there's plenty to do in the Metro area, the people are very nice, much nicer than many of those I encountered in LA, the atmosphere is just overall much more pleasant, and I'm not regretting my decision in the least.
Oh, and I'm also really liking the European type of housing structure too. I'm used to living in an area where most houses look like this:
Ann Arbor is pretty nice but it is small. After a year, it will get old. Maybe Detroit is the right place for you? I'm just saying everything that Detroit metro area has to offer is offered at just about every top 20 metro area. There is nothing special about Detroit metro.
Also, coming from Tokyo, I am actually pretty surprised that you think Detroit is nice. I don't think Detroit can be mentioned in the same breath as Toyko. I've been to both cities and Tokyo is 100x nicer and more lively than Detroit.
Just curious, what luxury hotels are you talking about, there aren't THAT m any luxury hotels in Detroit. Yes there is foot traffic during the wings, lions, tigers games but what about the other days?
BTW search for a restaurant named Ajishin. One of the best Japanese restaurants in the metro Detroit area.
What would you propose suburbanites do to improve the schools? We have a hard enough time running our own schools.
Honestly, there is not a whole lot that can be done. Many (again, not all) of the children have behavioral problems, learning disabilities, dysfunctional families, health problems, etc. There is tremendous mismanagement, waste, and overhead. I believe there are more administrators in the Detroit Public School system than there are teachers. No amount of "suburban lovin" is going to change that. And if the suburbs did offer to help, they would be met with accusations of "takeover by the white man".
Oh, I admit that I don't know how to resolve Detroit's problems. They are far too large and complex. And then there are the multi-layered cultural realities that run very deep and that we could never quite figure out. Ultimately, that's why we left.
I'm just reiterating a point that Indentured Servant made earlier: the suburbs and state mistakenly thought they could continue to progress while the city of Detroit rapidly regressed. Shortsighted, to say the least.
Yes, the state of US inner city schools is universally known. I am, and always was aware of it, but I'm just not one to think that they're all so bad that people should write them off. To do so is self-defeating in terms of a city's well-being.
I think there is a bit of chicken-and-egg conundrum at work in the delineation and segregation of city and suburb. Did people flee Detroit because the city and schools had deteriorated to the extent that mass exodus - and subsequent psychological abandonment - was the only option? Or was it that the city and schools have degenerated into their current "deplorable" conditions because suburbanites chose to turn away?
My experience living in suburban Detroit tells me that the city's conditions are more the unfortunate, but inevitable, result of the latter scenario than the former.
See my post about the tax structure in Detroit.
Also, having kids myself, their education is of paramount concern to us. While thinking that you can put them in an urban poor performing school would be a commendable and brave thing, the chances of making a difference in that district are minimal if not non-existent. They're generally huge districts with a lot of bureaucracy, most of the kids live in abject poverty and come from single parent households (so the parents are non-existent in the school), the teachers they draw are rarely the best of the bunch, the graduation rates are deplorable, the discipline in school is severely lacking, and the "customer service" of these urban districts is horrible.
So then you ask yourself "why am I paying exorbitant tax rates and the schools suck?" Why support a failing business model just because there's some kind of community nobility in it?" If you want diversity, you can find it in a lot of suburban districts, and the taxes are way lower yet the schools have a lot more resources. Though parents can make a difference in their kids' school, ultimately the educational system comes from the superintendent, the board, and legislators.
So beating up parents for doing what by all measures is the "smart" thing to do (higher quality, lower price, much better value) doesn't seem fair.
Suburbs and states don't think, they are inanimate entities. It is the individuals and families who made a conscious choice to better themselves and get out of the city. Not a matter of short-sightedness, but of self-improvement. You can't blame them for that. How would you propose forcing people to stay? Let me guess, you don't know. Well then don't criticize those who left. Sorry to be so blunt about it, but I've heard this 1000 times and don't feel it is fair to criticize unless you have a viable alternative.
The only criticism I have is that the suburbs and state (and nation) should be helping out with the removal of all the abandoned structures in the city. I've suggested controlled burns like they do in the forestry service. Abandoned houses can be burned down intentionally to save costs and to train firefighters like was done here:
I won't answer for xfactor, but here are some things I've noticed about Detroit:
Unreliable/unsafe public transit system that connects entire metro area.
Lack of safe, vibrant, walkable neighborhoods. And not just downtown. I'm sure even Camden and Compton can boast a relatively safe downtown. All the surrounding neighborhoods should be safe and walkable with things to do.
Needs a more walkable downtown. Everything is so fragmented in the downtown core. You pretty much have to drive to get from one decent neighborhood to another. Either improve public transit or make it more walkable.
Needs more jobs, jobs, jobs. And good paying ones at that.
Bring the Pistons downtown for crying out loud. It's so stupid that they play 40 minutes outside of Detroit. It's my belief that your major sports teams should be in the downtown core or very close to it. Just my opinion though.
I know they've been working on it, but keep plugging away at building up recreational activities in the city. The skating rink at Campus Martius and dedicated bike paths around the city are a great start. Keep it up. I'd just add more parks in the city. Isn't it the Rouge Park that's one of the biggest in the city? Clean that up along with Belle Isle and you'll have a couple of gems.
Young professionals want to play after they're done working. Keep providing them access to that and they will come. I mean, if Minneapolis can attract them, so can Detroit.
So the problem is Public Transportation pretty much (more walkable neighborhoods will come with that). Jobs is an obvious one but that isn't really a problem exclusive to Detroit (seen SoCal lately?).
As for the Pistons, why Detroit has an NBA team in the far north suburbs I have no idea.
I think some more parks would be a great idea IF they could maintain them. Actually I think some metro parks would do well. Another idea I would like as if they created some type of beach on the Detroit River, having some attractions in that whole beach district and it could blend perfectly with the events during the summer.
Another idea I would like as if they created some type of beach on the Detroit River, having some attractions in that whole beach district and it could blend perfectly with the events during the summer.
I don't think that is possible due to the current which would constantly wash the sand away. They would have to build a projection(s) out into the river to slow the flow, but that would create other problems (ice jams, increased flow in the open part causing more erosion, obstruction to navigation, etc.).
The beach on Belle Isle exists because it is sheltered from the incoming water flow. Same for Metro Beach.
Suburbs and states don't think, they are inanimate entities. It is the individuals and families who made a conscious choice to better themselves and get out of the city. Not a matter of short-sightedness, but of self-improvement. You can't blame them for that. How would you propose forcing people to stay? Let me guess, you don't know. Well then don't criticize those who left. Sorry to be so blunt about it, but I've heard this 1000 times and don't feel it is fair to criticize unless you have a viable alternative.
The only criticism I have is that the suburbs and state (and nation) should be helping out with the removal of all the abandoned structures in the city. I've suggested controlled burns like they do in the forestry service. Abandoned houses can be burned down intentionally to save costs and to train firefighters like was done here:
Oh, okay, Retroit. I stand corrected.
How presumptuous of me to think that I could or should have opinion about a place in which I lived, worked, paid taxes, went to school, had kids, and volunteered in public schools for 14 years. Do forgive me.
I don't see in in my post where I criticized those who MOVED from the city, either in the past or more currently. And I KNOW I didn't say ANYTHING about "forcing people to stay" (really?). But, yes, I did make observations in my 14 years in Detroit. Pretty ballsy, I guess. Because, really, unless I have solutions to Detroit's problems, I shouldn't be noticing anything, let alone expressing an opinion about them.
I am sorry, but in Detroit, I saw a population of detached, sheltered suburbanites who, overwhelmingly, seemed indifferent, if not completely oblivious, to what goes on in the city of the metro area they claim to love so much.
That people prefer to live in the Detroit suburbs is understandable. But people turning away from the city altogether, physically AND psychologically - for decades - hasn't turned out well. Yes, it WAS INDEED shortsighted of suburbanites, collectively, to think that by hunkering down in the suburbs, the city's problems could be neglected indefinitely. THAT avoidance behavior is what I was talking about; the condition of the schools is only a symptom of the behavior.
If you like, go ahead and consider me just another clueless outsider. As such, one objective and viable solution I CAN offer is for Metro Detroiters to overcome this "us vs them" mentality in terms of suburbs and Detroit. As a lifelong Detroiter, you might think this segregation is justifiable. If you look at it objectively, however, I'm sure you'll agree that it's certainly not going to help resurrect your city.
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I'd just add more parks in the city. Isn't it the Rouge Park that's one of the biggest in the city? Clean that up along with Belle Isle and you'll have a couple of gems. 
