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To quote Glitch"Then there is the added stress to the dog. Dogs are pack animals, but they do not hang around other strange dogs, only their pack. Taking a dog to a dog park filled with strange dogs puts an enormous stress on the animal. But as long as the owner is a happy camper, that's the important thing.
As far as places to go, other than a dog park, in southern California it depends on your specific location, but there are lots of places from the Angeles National Forest, to the miles of empty beach north of Malibu and south of Oxnard. If you happen to live in or near Santa Barbara, then Lake Cachuma is nice spot to take a dog. There are plenty of better alternatives than a disease-ridden dog park, if the owner is willing to look for them."
Sorry I still disagree as dogs that spend alot of time around other dogs seem to do fine at the dog parks as they do develop friendships with other dogs that are not in their " home pack." My dogs have also had best buddies in classes we have taken and once class ends sometimes it may be a year or two before they see them again and they get all excited to see their old friends..most but granted not all dogs are very social and enjoy meeting other dogs.
Lets see some of those places you mention in So California you risk large fines should you get caught with your dog off leash and up around Lake Cachuma and up in the national forrests if there even still are areas that will allow off leash dogs you do have rattle snakes, bears and yes mountain lions and lots of ticks . Having a sight hound that may take off after such creatures I feel much safer in a fenced dog park or the cliff lined leash free beach. I also could run into some agressive off leash dog in any of these areas and being they are not places I would be going to often I would not have the advantage I do at the dog park by knowing most of the other dogs. Also why should I drive for an hour or more so my dog can run leash free when I have places within a 5 minute drive that I have had no bad experiences with allowing my dogs off leash for the past 14 years??? You need to come experience the traffic one has to deal with to get to any of those places and you might not see them as places to go to as this is So CA not Alaska and traffic is bad most times of the day now.
Once again you are judging the places I use on your experiences or maybe even hearsay from other people about other parks. And about all I see being correct on a daily basis is yes there are a few people that come just to socialize and sit with their friends and ignore their dog but most of those people at our local park have older dogs that hang out near them and are not problem causing dogs so the issue there is the people not seeing their dog poop but usually someone else will tell them as I said people are protective of the dog parks here. And some days people do bring small kids which I do not like but then again Dazzle is a great dog with small kids as he has a very stable temperment and if he does not like something he simply runs away and avoids it.( that goes for kids, adults or dogs)
Dazzle actually pouts if for some reason we do not make it to the dog park or the leash free beach and when he pouts he will not eat his dinner .He gets as excited to go to these places as Jazz and Dash did about going to agility so he is enjoying being around " strange " dogs who are not really strange as he and I both know them!!!!
I think it is crazy to say that dogs can not enjoy friends outside the pack...dogs are not wolves so people need to stop thinking what may be true for a wolf is also true for dogs. Even my grumbly old Jazz who has fear issues so can be dog aggressive and is very bossy with other dogs( her cattle dog blood) has dog friends that she loves to be a around and they are not dogs in her family pack and some she does not even see very often. She went to dog parks when she was younger but as she aged got protective of Dash and very bossy about what other dogs were allowed to do I quite taking her as not all dogs are dog park material. So you do have to have a dog with the right temperment to enjoy a dog park. Dazzle, Phoenix and the late Dash all love playing at the dog park and not one of them has ever gotten sick or even gotten fleas or attacked by another dog at the park.
I now not all dogs parks are as nice or have as nice of a group of dogs that come but I feel ours is a safe place especially for my sighthound and when Phoenix lived with me before I gave her to my parents for a deaf dog like her as some dogs are just safer in a fenced area or a cliff lined beach like our leash free beach. So I will take the risks you seem to feel are such a big deal over my dog suffering the pain of a rattle snake bite as that is a very real issue in the back country down here as is getting hit with large fines should you get caught with a dog off leash. Even the mountain lions are becoming a big issue as they are even seen in the park that is about 1/2 a mile from my house out on the trails during the daytime .
Not all dog parks are equal and there are some nice safe ones out there as long as you keep an eye on your dog. Heck there are streets in the United States that I would not feel safe walking down but that does not mean I do not feel safe walking down all streets Same is true of dog parks!
Since I know my dog is going to be interacting with other dogs -- at the park, at my brother's house, at my mother's house, in my neighborhood -- I visit the vet every year to ensure that he's up-to-date on his shots. (Distemper and parvo are amongst those yearly vaccinations, I believe.) I also keep him on flea-and-tick medications, and in his 8.5 years, I've never seen a flea on him. Since I am his owner, the onus is on me to keep him protected against diseases. I don't depend on the rest of the world to do my work for me.
Absolutely this is true. This is why when my dog and I visit the park -- every weekend -- we move around the park and avoid the clusters. I whistle for him to keep him near me so that I can intervene if there are any problems. I am watchful of other dogs and my own dog's behavior. I've familiarized myself with some basic breed characteristics, so that I know -- for instance -- that Danes and GSDs and Dobies might be a bit protective of their owners and not appreciative of Bandit's venturing too close.
I have definitely noticed this to be true, hence our moving around and avoiding clusters and yada-yada.
Our park does have signs that make it quite clear that children under the age of 12 are not allowed, and we have park rangers who stop by reguarly to shoo kids out. This doesn't always do the trick, and people still bring their kids in. But luckily I am an adult, with the ability to assess a situation and make my own decisions. I am not responsible for those children; I AM responsible for my dog and his behavior. If I see that his behavior or the children's behavior is risky, I have no problems leaving.
Absolutely could happen. Since I have a "big" dog, I am especially watchful of him around little ones, and again, I don't hesitate to intervene or leave if the situation warrants removal.
Grim, I'm sure. Yet again, however, it all goes back to my attention and willingness to vacate the park if I sense that there's a bad vibe. We've done it. There's a pair of Viszlas that I avoid like the plague. Lovely dogs, the pair of them, but they play aggressively with one another, with lots of energy and vocalizations, and this tends to create high-stress amongst the other dogs. So if Maddy and Ginger are there, Bandit and I try first to do our stuff at the far end of the park, well away from the Dastardly Duo, or we leave.
It's a big park. My dog isn't forced to "hang around" with any dog he doesn't like. If he's fixating on a dog or is being fixated on by another dog, we leave and return another day when the chemistry is different. (And that's one thing I've learned: Every day brings a different chemistry to the dog park.)
It's great that there are some alternatives for some dog owners. I have a Siberian Husky, and the number-one rule of owning a Sibe is that you never, never, NEVER let them off leash in an unfenced area. I won't risk his life or his loss, so he doesn't get off-leash time unless we're at a fenced dog-park.
My intention in focusing on Glitch's post is not to say that his perspective is wrong. It's just that his perspective is ONE perspective. I have another. I certainly understand that dog parks are not for eveyrone, and I understand that dog parks CAN be potentially dangerous. But they're not AUTOMATICALLY the devil's playground, filled with rabid Cujos just waiting to maim and destroy. I think some parks are probably better than others, but ultimately I think they are a TOOL, and they can be utilized properly. Educate yourself, take care of your dog, be attuned to your dog, check your pride at the door, don't bring items that trigger possessiveness and territoriality issues, keep moving and avoid the clusters, and be willing to leave. When Ban and I are at the park, we're there for 10-30 minutes, tops...longer in the winter when it's cold. We're there so he can run off-leash, and our time at the park is a valuable contribution to his overall wellbeing. I'm incredibly grateful that we have access to a park.
could NOT have said it better nifty and dash.......
and glitch, i am still waiting for your alternative for me ..... how do i let my dogs RUN offleash safely and without risk of tickets and fines if we don't go to the fenced-in dog park??
we do walk in a park in the early weekday mornings where i let them offleash in the very back area.... but we are home today because it looks like bailey has injured her right rear leg..... they disappear into the woods and splash in the river and generally have a grand ol' time.... but on the other hand, i am risking tickets and fines and this is the 3rd problem bailey has had this year from this activity..... so in my mind, it is MUCH more risky than a fenced dog park.......
There's a lot of great information on here. Last Sat. was the first day I took my two dogs to the dog park in about a year. Various reasons, like a new car, my Great Dane's health, and then me having surgery kept us away far too long.
Soon, it will be cooler weather so we'll be going to the park much more. My dogs love going, and the dog park was a life saver in helping to socialize my rescued pit who was/is fearful of people.
My dane was already about 8 when the park opened and I didn't know how she would do. She's friendly to people, but I didn't know how she would do in the park situation. The little pit I rescued was the one I worried about due to peoples' perceptions of pit bulls. LOL, I've had zero trouble from her. My dane on the other hand is 98% happy. On occasion she gets mad at another dog, but she minds so well, and learns so fast that it really has become a non-issue. She will jump back when a dog acts agressive to her, but now when another dog snaps at her she looks at me. I have to be extra cautious because of her size, and cautious of Molly because of her breed. Regardless, they will most likely be blamed if something happens.
The two biggest complaints I have at the dog parks: People who leave their dogs on a leash, but that doesn't happen often, and people who bring their small dogs to the big dog side. That's only an issue when they don't control them, and that happens more with small dog owners. No, your pug snapping at my dane's heels is NOT cute. I've had an incident where the owner of a small dog allowed her dog to growl and snap at the other dogs, including my dane. I'll walk my dogs away poor dog owners' dogs. Better to be safe. If that doesn't solve the issue I will speak up. People do speak up at the dog park. They're quick to correct you, but that's okay if it protects the dogs and the people.
I think it's normal for people to be nervous until their dog adjusts to the park. I believe your dog will pick up on your feelings, though, which makes it worse. I'm no dog expert, but maybe start them out on slow days when there are not many dogs at the park.
Agreed that there is a lot of great information on here...and Nifty and Dash have pretty much summed up my opinion. Just thought I'd add that as others have said there are good and bad with everything...you have your good dog parks and your bad dog parks. We have 3 different parks that are local to us..the two public parks are very clean and filled with the "regulars" who watch their dog closely, pick up any poop, and know dog behaviors so they keep their pups in check. If someone is getting too rowdy, aggressive, etc. then its time to leave. The third is a private park that you can get a membership to for fairly cheap that keeps files on each and every dog...you must provide updated shot records every year and if there is an incident your dog must leave..they have staff observing in all areas of the park. So dog parks vary and you cannot generalize. They can be a great asset for those who do not have the opportunity to take their dogs off leash in other areas.
Dog parks are a cesspool of diseases. Lots of dogs don’t have the correct vaccinations, since owners don’t care enough. Some dogs are not even on flea medications. Since owners rarely pick up their dogs waste the dog park is literally a minefield of dog poop with all sorts of diseases coming with it. Distemper and Parvo being the most commonly transmitted diseases in dog parks.
Dog parks are dangerous because you never know what kind of dogs come there. You may have the friendliest dog in the world, but that doesn’t matter if someone’s untrained 100 pound Fido decides that your dog looked wrong on him. While you are trying to save your dog, a lot of owner will just stand around yelling that Fido is just playing around. This is especially dangerous for young puppies.
Dog parks are dangerous because majority of owners would rather sit on small islands of grass and chit-chat instead of watching their dogs.
Dog parks are dangerous because a lot of parents think it’s a good place to let their children play and bring very young children to park. Imagine the danger when a 5 year old child picks a stick and starts chasing dogs.
Dog parks are dangerous because people don’t follow rules about sizes. You often find more small dogs on big side of the park then big dogs. A small dog can be literally stomped to death in a dog park.
Dog parks often bring dogs that usually set in home for whole day either locked in a crate or backyard. On weekends you can see who only let their dogs run around on weekends in a dog park. Imagine the dog’s behavior in a dog park after it has been locked away for a week.
Then there is the added stress to the dog. Dogs are pack animals, but they do not hang around other strange dogs, only their pack. Taking a dog to a dog park filled with strange dogs puts an enormous stress on the animal. But as long as the owner is a happy camper, that's the important thing.
As far as places to go, other than a dog park, in southern California it depends on your specific location, but there are lots of places from the Angeles National Forest, to the miles of empty beach north of Malibu and south of Oxnard. If you happen to live in or near Santa Barbara, then Lake Cachuma is nice spot to take a dog. There are plenty of better alternatives than a disease-ridden dog park, if the owner is willing to look for them.
I agree with you so much. Specially with the irresponsible parents with small children. Where I go is not a dog park but dogs are allowed off leash so nothing we can do. Stupid parents bring babies with carriages (is a very rugged terrain so that's out of place), they bring babies as young as 1.5 years old and let them play with sticks and go into the water where they are not supposed to be (where the dogs swim). It is crazy and stressful but unfortunately, I don't have a yard where my dog can play so I just learn and keep changing my hours. No matter, even at 6:45 am I have seen a crazy woman with a very young kid, about 3 or 4 years walking in the woods.
One thing that I learned the hard way is not to go to an off leash place when my dog has been alone all day. She just goes crazy and can't handle it. For those days she will just have to go for a run leashed.
I honestly did not know that going to a DP puts a dog in stress-I thought I had to socialize my GSD at all costs because I don't want her guard instincts to take over. This weekend I took her to a dog park for first time (running from the kids of the lake where I usually go). I did noticed she was lost there and even became mellow. I now understand that she was not happy in a new environment with new dogs. On the other hand, she is now too comfortable in her usual lake and retaliates to any dog that as much as growls at her. She behaves like an alpha dog there and has now even participated in a couple of physical arguments.
I just dream to be able to buy my own home with a fenced in yard but that is light years away.
I honestly did not know that going to a DP puts a dog in stress-I thought I had to socialize my GSD at all costs because I don't want her guard instincts to take over.
You should absolutely socialize your dog, but under controlled conditions while on a slack leash. The best way to do this is by first introducing yourself to the other dog. If your GSD sees you accepting the other dog, they are less likely to be agressive toward the "strange" dog. Then allow your GSD to get acquainted. Keep the leash slack to allow your dog to communicate using body language, but just in case things don't go well you will still have control. This introduction should ideally be done on neutral territory so neither dog has the "home" advantage or feels the need to protect their territory.
This is not something that can be done properly at a dog park with lots of other strange dogs around.
i think it's pretty presumptuous to assume that people on this forum don't know when their dog is stressed.
i certainly know when sadie is stressed and when she's relaxed, and most of the time at the dog park she is totally relaxed. if she gets stressed, which she sometimes does if another dog won't leave her alone, we leave.
talking about dogs' pack animal instincts is silly - obviously some dogs absolutely love meeting any new dog, some dogs are picky or prefer dogs they're familiar with, some dogs don't like any other dogs. arguing that it's not natural for dogs to hang out with strange dogs is sort of pointless when it's clear that some dogs just love other dogs no matter what, and are absolutely overjoyed to go to the park. it's not natural for people to drive in cars, but lots of people seem to enjoy that too.
certainly, there are people out there who don't understand their dog's body language, or they just don't care, and they subject their dogs to situations that aren't good for them, including going to dog parks when their particular dog doesn't like it there. but to tar everyone who takes their dog to a park with the same brush, as selfish and oblivious, is totally unfair.
i think it's pretty presumptuous to assume that people on this forum don't know when their dog is stressed.
i certainly know when sadie is stressed and when she's relaxed, and most of the time at the dog park she is totally relaxed. if she gets stressed, which she sometimes does if another dog won't leave her alone, we leave.
talking about dogs' pack animal instincts is silly - obviously some dogs absolutely love meeting any new dog, some dogs are picky or prefer dogs they're familiar with, some dogs don't like any other dogs. arguing that it's not natural for dogs to hang out with strange dogs is sort of pointless when it's clear that some dogs just love other dogs no matter what, and are absolutely overjoyed to go to the park. it's not natural for people to drive in cars, but lots of people seem to enjoy that too.
certainly, there are people out there who don't understand their dog's body language, or they just don't care, and they subject their dogs to situations that aren't good for them, including going to dog parks when their particular dog doesn't like it there. but to tar everyone who takes their dog to a park with the same brush, as selfish and oblivious, is totally unfair.
i think it's pretty presumptuous to assume that people on this forum don't know when their dog is stressed.
i certainly know when sadie is stressed and when she's relaxed, and most of the time at the dog park she is totally relaxed. if she gets stressed, which she sometimes does if another dog won't leave her alone, we leave.
talking about dogs' pack animal instincts is silly - obviously some dogs absolutely love meeting any new dog, some dogs are picky or prefer dogs they're familiar with, some dogs don't like any other dogs. arguing that it's not natural for dogs to hang out with strange dogs is sort of pointless when it's clear that some dogs just love other dogs no matter what, and are absolutely overjoyed to go to the park. it's not natural for people to drive in cars, but lots of people seem to enjoy that too.
certainly, there are people out there who don't understand their dog's body language, or they just don't care, and they subject their dogs to situations that aren't good for them, including going to dog parks when their particular dog doesn't like it there. but to tar everyone who takes their dog to a park with the same brush, as selfish and oblivious, is totally unfair.
You are absolutly right!
Finn loves meeting other dogs and I enjoy watching him run and play, he's a very social dog that enjoys very much being around other dogs of all sizes. If he was stressed at all I certainly wouldn't take him. Othere then a dog park there really isn't any place for him to go and be able to run and play with other dogs.
Rita, who isn't always the friendliest, doesn't really like being around a lot of strange dogs. So I would never think of taking her to a dog park. She would be stressed. We would probably be asked to leave with her attitude anyway.
Just make sure your dog will come when called, regardless of distractions, and stay attentive.
We've taken Bigun to dog parks since he was six months old. I stay within voice range as he moves around the park. Occasionally, we've encountered scary dogs, or dogs will pack up on him. I use my "STRONG VOICE" commanding "No, Time Out." So far, it grabs everyone's attention just long enough to then call Big' to me, and allow the other owners to do the same.
Generally, a brief "time out" from the exchange will get everyone back on friendly ground. However, if a dog persists in trying to instigate unwelcome behaviors, that dog's owner is responsible for removal. I've had to remove Big' from only a couple of parks, once because HE was being the jerk.
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Same is true of dog parks!
