Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This purebred is already alive also.
What do you think will eventually happen to this dog if the breeder does not sell it or is not responsible? Will it see the same demise as a dog in the pound?
The logic is not flawed. Two counterpoints:
- If folks don't buy a dog from the breeder, then there's no financial incentive for them to continue breeding in the future. This is a key reason why they're around ... because buyers support their existance.
- This is based on "what ifs", hence the word "responsible" has been in this conversation. Adopting, however, is an assurance that the dog is NOT on a one-way trip to the gas chamber.
Quote:
You have your reasons and you have justified them. It's your choice and I have never faulted someone for going to the pound and rescuing a dog but use some sound logic.
Replace 'pound' with 'breeder', and 'rescuing' with 'buying', and the very same can apply.
I knew I wanted a doberman for several reasons. I started by looking for a doberman rescue. They were almost the same price as from the breeder, and were located several states over which would make it the same price. The lady I bought from rescues them as well as breds them, and the sire of my pup was a rescue who is now a stud. I know it sux to think about the dogs in the shelter who missed out on a home, and shelter dogs are much more appreciative than non-shelters, but I got the dog I wanted and love him to death. I'm more confident in his guard dog abilities than I would be with a shelter dog too.
The only reason I would ever buy a puppy from a breeder is if I wanted to get back into showing and breeding a specific breed. I have no problem if people want a purebred dog as long as they have done their homework, are dealing with a reputable breeder and spay or neuter if the dog is not show/working quality and going to be used for that purpose. Do I champion shelter & rescue dogs? You bet! All of my dogs are rescues and one of them is even an AKC registered purebred. I just wish that more people would understand that getting a purebred doesn't equal getting a certain temperment or quality. Each dog is an individual.
The logic is not flawed. Two counterpoints:
- If folks don't buy a dog from the breeder, then there's no financial incentive for them to continue breeding in the future. This is a key reason why they're around ... because buyers support their existance.
I have both rescues and purebreds from reputable breeders. I'd rather see someone buy from a reputable breeder, one who breeds to improve the line, one who breeds for temperament, who does all of the health clearances required for a specific breed than someone who thinks their dog is so cute, they must have puppies from her. The financial incentive is the BYB sellig their pups on Craigslist. Dogs not even vaccinated are being bred for a buck. Entire litters are dying due to Parvo. These people are contributing to the problem of shelter dogs. Your responsible breeder insures the dogs they breed go to responsible homes and take them back if the owner can't keep them.
Even thew most of you are 100% ageist the folks who breed there mutt or think, gee wouldn't it be fun to have some pups, that mutt down the street and fluffy would make cool pups but you run to the shelter to save them?
This logic is flawed.
"I don't think I could ever buy a dog, because like the OP said, if I did that just means there's a dog out there that didn't get rescued. The thought that a dog went to the gas chamber or died because I chose to buy a dog isn't somehting I can live with."
This purebred is already alive also.
What do you think will eventually happen to this dog if the breeder does not sell it or is not responsible? Will it see the same demise as a dog in the pound?
You have your reasons and you have justified them. It's your choice and I have never faulted someone for going to the pound and rescuing a dog but use some sound logic.
having never bought from a breeder, i may be misinformed, but it was my understanding that reputable / responsible breeders generally have homes waiting for a litter before the mother is even bred......
Quote:
Originally Posted by calvinbama
I knew I wanted a doberman for several reasons. I started by looking for a doberman rescue. They were almost the same price as from the breeder, and were located several states over which would make it the same price. The lady I bought from rescues them as well as breds them, and the sire of my pup was a rescue who is now a stud. I know it sux to think about the dogs in the shelter who missed out on a home, and shelter dogs are much more appreciative than non-shelters, but I got the dog I wanted and love him to death. I'm more confident in his guard dog abilities than I would be with a shelter dog too.
a RESCUE doberman that was not neutered and is being bred?? is the rescue the one breeding him?? what are his qualifications as a sire?? has he been tested for genetic issues common to dobermans?? does he have show titles??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Va-Cat
The only reason I would ever buy a puppy from a breeder is if I wanted to get back into showing and breeding a specific breed. I have no problem if people want a purebred dog as long as they have done their homework, are dealing with a reputable breeder and spay or neuter if the dog is not show/working quality and going to be used for that purpose. Do I champion shelter & rescue dogs? You bet! All of my dogs are rescues and one of them is even an AKC registered purebred. I just wish that more people would understand that getting a purebred doesn't equal getting a certain temperment or quality. Each dog is an individual.
I have always loved pure bred dogs. If I could afford the initial cost and care of a Newfoundland, I'd love to have one.
Fast forward a few years, and my buddy Everest (hence the user name) is a full grown dog. I still don't know what he is, and probably ever will, and I don't really care. He looked like St. Bernard as a pup, but now he looks like something that may have had a grandfather that was a Australian Shepherd lol. He hardly ever barks, stays by my side, great with the kids, doesn't go after other dogs, will fetch a tennis ball until my arm falls off.
How do you guys feel on the issue, I'm sure there are both dog owners that have got a dog from a shelter or a breeder, how do you feel about this?
I have nothing against buying from a breeder. Although I could never really afford to pay a lot of money for a purebred dog I did end up getting purebred rescues, cast aways or what ever you want to call them as well as getting mutts from the "shelters". My dogs are my companions so I really dont care if they are top of the line from a breeder. Actually my dogs have somehow found me instead of me seeking them out.
I would never buy a dog from a breeder because there are too many out there waiting to find me.
All our dogs that we have as a member of our family were rescue dogs. We have two currently and they are our precious furbabies. The only reason I would (and I dont and never have) buy a purebreed is if I wanted to do shows or breed...and as said before, I don't.
I've been doing rescue work for 16 years so my answer is obvious.
However, I do understand that people that need a real working dog will need to go to a breeder that has a good long history of producing excellent working lines for what they do. I also understand there are breeders that are breeding ethically and producing healthier dogs that live longer lives. That's always a plus. Because of the rescue, every dog we have is the product of either a lousy back yard breeder that some twit purchased on a whim and a couple years later decided the responsibility was too much so they either dump them in a shelter, give them away on line, sell them to another dim wit that's planning on breeding them, etc. Either way, the eventually made it to our rescue and for whatever reason - not a candidate for adoption due to health or behavior issues or they fit too well into our pack that we decided to keep them - and they have a forever home. It also means that while most small breed dogs live 15 to 20 years and well bred small breeds can live longer, we'll probably lose ours around 10 to 12 years. The large breed dogs we'll lose 8 to 10 and the one giant breed we had we lost at 5 years. All because of genetically transmitted problems that a responsible owner would have detected in the breeding stock by genetic health testing and chosen to NOT breed that dog.
All this said...................
A responsible breeder who is looking to improve their given breed will always have dogs in each litter that won't be exactly what they're looking for. They won't have the qualities that would make them a good show dog or whatever. Those dogs need homes. It doesn't bother me when people buy them. I've always said that some day I'd love to buy one myself. Would be nice to have a dog live a very long life and not have crazy high medical bills to pay for those genetic health problems.
What I don't like is backyard breeders and puppy mills. Easiest way to decide if they qualify - in my opinion - is asking if they've done all genetic health testing that's prevalent in their breed and check the paperwork yourself. If they've done testing they should only be breeding the dogs that have good to excellent scoring on those tests. Before looking at the paperwork, you need to know what to look for. A vet can't run all these tests himself in most cases. X-rays can be done for hip dysplasia for example but the xrays will need to be read and the findings recorded through OFA. So you'll need to know how to 'read' OFA results. Same goes for CERF for eyes and several other testings.
i think there needs to be a BIG distinction betwen BYB's and mills and RESPONSIBLE breeders.
a good responsible breeder doesnt breed as a living, doesnt breed for profit, they breed for a love of a breed and trying to preserve and even better that breed...
most responsible breeders are lucky if they break even on a litter after the costs to show and tittle and health check and upkeep during prengancy and whelping adn the costs of properly raising a litter ect...
puppies from good breeders come with extra socilization, a good start on health and temperment...
i am 100% FOR responsible breeding
because responsible breeders do NOT contribute to animals in shelters (if you check any good breeders contract they all demand that any dog that cannot be kept must be returned to them, that their dogs NEVER end up in a shelter...and people looking into buying from responsible breders are likely looking for something so specific they wouldnt go to a rescue/shelter anyway...
byb's and mills however are another story...these are the folks that place adds in the local paper, bred fluffy to goerge down the street because their cute, and, after the sale, thats it...they dont realy care what happens to the dog once they have your money...these are the breeders that contribute to shelter dogs...
there are good and bad breeders in the world...the difference is in doing your reserch and only supporting the good ones...
in terms of by rescuing your not supporting breeders...are you sure about that?
we had one notorious one (and hear stories of it all the time from other shelters) when i worked for my local no kill...she had 3 female and 1 male dog...she would breed each female on every heat, sell as many puppies as possible thorugh the web and newspapers, puppies had no shots, often whent home at 6 weeks (illegal but without proof nothing we could do), bellys full of intestinal parisites and often fleas and other issues...then any puppies that didnt get sold by 10 weeks got dumped at the shelter to "make room" for the next litter...
see she wasnt SPENDING any money raising the litter, so it didnt matter to her if she had to leave a few at the shelter each litter because she wasnt loosing any money...so people would come in and adopt the cute puppies that shed dumped because people want puppies over older dogs in many cases...which left the dogs that REALY needed help sitting in kennels and room for her to continue to bring her "left overs" in...
we turned her away a couple of times and reported her, but she wasnt breaking any laws and would just take them to other shelters in the area...if noone would take the pups she'd leave them in a box on the doorstep overnight...you knew they were hers because they all looked alike...
so in THAT case, by goign to the shelter and adopting these pups people (and the shelter itself) were actually supporting this idiot...
she charged about $200 a puppy "pure bred with papers" (APRI) and her average littersize was 8 pups...we did the math and it averaged out that we were taking in 50% of the puppies she produced each year and rehoming them for her...
personally...i feel if your looking for soemthing VERY specific, show, performance ect...do your reserch and find a good breeder who will provide lifetime support...
if your just looking for a family pet...do your reserch...check your local shelters and breed rescue first and if then your still not finding the one thats mean tot be, again find a good breeder who will provide you with lifetime support.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
but you run to the shelter to save them?
