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A mini aussie is like a mini Great Dane; the answer to the question that nobody asked.
It's a good thing that the ASCA exists, or the aussie would be just another canine casualty of the AKC.
How is a mini supposed to heard? Really?!!
I'm on my third Red Tri right now, two concurrent. I couldn't dream of owning any other breed. They do more than herd, they protect you from muggers and vicious racoons. Wonder how I know this?
It's all about preference. I have 2 Mini Aussies! My Mini Aussies are both involved in herding. They are really great at it! My oldest came from two Mini Aussie parents. Both farm dogs. Both bred, great bloodlines. They weren't rants, but just smaller than standard. My older MA, was actually the runt of her litter. She came out last. She had to be hand fed, and she was bullied by her siblings, for a few weeks. She was also the most beautiful, of all the dogs. She had the best temperament. Everyone else was extremely excited, while my girl, was on the calmer side. Eventually, my girl made it up in the ranks and was fighting off her siblings at about 6 weeks old. You would have never knew she was a runt.
She has been amazing! She is amazing around my horses! She follows me around, everywhere. My friend brings her 5 regular Aussies over, and they are shy. They stay with her, at all times. And one of hers jumped off the hayloft, like a dumbie....compared to the standard Aussie, my Minis are the same.
My puppy,(10 weeks old) is already herding ducks, doing agility and much more. He came from a show breeder. He actually came from my older dog's grandmother. But, I am around standard Aussies and Mini's, too. They is no difference, except for the Minis shorter, more compact build. That's it. Stop judging them. There is no comparing them to a Great Dane. A Great shouldn't be made a Mini.
The objection is that they are a crossbred manufactured breed. If you look at minis on rescue, the sheltie cross is very obvious.
Generalization: Because reputable breeders won't participate, the minis come with a large assortment of health and temperament issues. There might be some very careful breeders of minis, but they are very much in the minority
I consider them to be a big step up from the cockapoo, because there is an effort to get them to bred true and to form a genuine breed.
I have seen a few very handsome minis, where everything came together just right and they really do look like Australian Shepherds, but those are in the minority. Usually, they look like high priced mutts.
I usually dont post online but the previous comments were so specious and inaccurate though; felt it worth the time to point out a some historical facts.
The original aussie type was quite small and was called the little blue dog. These were part of the early west sheep herders life and I have attached a picture of one. it looks pretty small to me.
Over time different size dogs developed depending on ranch needs and the 1950's bred type defined a taller dog. However the smaller aussies never fell out of favor and I can remember back to the early 1970's growing up in Orange County CA, (when orange county was still full of orange groves), when as young teenager we had our first nine month old rescue "regular aussie" he was 60 lbs of dog intensity. At the same time , my mom's friend purchased a "mini" aussie, just as typey and a true velcro dog; I can't remeber the exact details but she had friends in Los Angeles who owned horses and they knew of the these recent mini aussies out of L.A. county. Her comments were there were always large and small australian shepherds sheep ranchers tended to prefer the smaller size cattle ranchers prefered the larger size, and horse people she knew seemed to want the smallest of the minis. That was about forty years ago.
In 2002 we got a "mini" female aussie luna of around 30lbs, much quieter then the racetrack digging aussie kilo of my youth, but a great herder of of our 90lb tibetian mastiff/rott cross. We just lost her to cancer & ending up just getting a pup from the smallest of the aussie lines, Moxie. SHer mom was a mini adn her Dad was a even smaller, Red'nHot. she will be likely just touching the 14 inch female height mark, and likely only 20lbs or so. but even as an eleven week old puppy she shows plenty of instinct ( especially for a family dog) and is an awesome looking pup. I actually campaigned for a full size female aussie but am frankly glad we went small.
From my personal experience the main point with aussie type is they are best and happiest around active people, whatever makes the aussie dog be part of a person's life, including size, the happier it will be, they are not really suited for backyard life or oraments for rich and famous. Frisbees, camping, ranching agility and hiking are what a true western Aussie will thrive on.
Thank you so much for sticking up for the Mini Aussie! Basically as Vanerpl pointed out....Mini Australian Shepherds ARE Australian Shepherds. My "mini" is about the same size as a BC. She's about 32 lbs and built very similar as she is a little skinny but very active. I have had two wonderful BCs and from my experience the two are so similar that they must be first cousins. Manufactured, Runts....nonsense!! And anyone who can call a beautiful dog "icky" sucks IMO! My little Aussie has such a wonderful personality, sweet and gentle and she is quite smart. I'd put her up against any "standard" size Aussie in a race or agility and she can really sky! She's amazingly fast although not quite as fast as my two BCs. They were fast enough to warp space! You cannot go wrong with either size. I liked the "mini" size because that was about the size of my two BCs...not too big and not too small.
The objection is that they are a crossbred manufactured breed. If you look at minis on rescue, the sheltie cross is very obvious.
Generalization: Because reputable breeders won't participate, the minis come with a large assortment of health and temperament issues. There might be some very careful breeders of minis, but they are very much in the minority
I consider them to be a big step up from the cockapoo, because there is an effort to get them to bred true and to form a genuine breed.
I have seen a few very handsome minis, where everything came together just right and they really do look like Australian Shepherds, but those are in the minority. Usually, they look like high priced mutts.
First I will introduce myself as having been owned by Aussies since 1990 and very involved in both the Aussie world and the Mini world. Not as a breeder but as a performance eventer and competition agility instructor.
The Mini Aussie is not a crossbred manufactured breed. It is very easy to *assume* Minis are the result of crossbreeding...and some likely are since in any breed you will find unscrupulous breeders; in this case it would be unscrupulous breeders who don't want to wait the generations it takes to develop reproducible desirable traits...but the biological fact is that any time you downsize a breed using 100% purebred dogs of that breed certain undesirable traits automatically ride along. Traits such as domed heads and bug eyes because the skeletal structures and the soft tissue structures of the head do not always downsize together at the same rate. So you may end up with a snipey muzzle (lends a Sheltie look) or bug eyes (lends a Chi look) or a domed head (lends a Chi look). The same thing occurs throughout the dog's body but these mismatched growth patterns are more apparent in the headpiece since that is what we tend to look at. Poor body conformation (straight shoulders, straight rears, sloping topline, easty westy feet, cowhocks, etc.) occur naturally in all purebreds so when these same conformational derangements occur as a result of the aforementioned downsizing phenomenon we don't recognize it as such since we are so used to seeing these traits in purebreds. Thus the often observed odd Mini head stands out even further.
When these natural genetic variations are produced during a breed downsizing effort, what is an ethical breeder to do? Cull the pups or find them good homes? That's one reason you see them around...the ethical breeders chose to find them good homes, thank God. And the crappy breeders don't care...they just continue to produce what the unsuspecting and uneducated puppy buyer wants.
There are many, many ethical and careful breeders of Minis. I know many of them personally. All across the country. Unfortunately there are also lots of crappy ones. Especially in the PNW which is subsequently a hotbed of Mini rescue.
As to why anyone would want a Mini Aussie, I can tell you. An ardent lover of Aussies for many years, as I aged and desired a smaller dog for my aging body to manage...smaller crates to travel with to events, easier to pick up, etc...I looked high and low for a smaller breed but they all came up lacking compared to my beloved Aussie. Lots and lots of folks like me! People who adore the idiosyncracies of the herding breeds and the high energy, huge smarts, amazing trainability, stellar athleticism and fabulous sense of humor of the Aussie. Not to mention their drop dead beauty.
On the health and temperament issues, Aussies are no shining stars in this department so it naturally follows that Minis bred down in size from Aussies wouldn't be either. Aussies have temperament problems...odd fears, can be sharp with kids and other dogs, can have a bit too much of their natural guardian instinct, sound sensitivities...and they have health issues...several eye diseases, hip dysplasia, epilepsy, IBD, MDR1 gene mutation, autoimmune disorders. You can expect to see all of these problems in the Mini as well.
I usually dont post online but the previous comments were so specious and inaccurate though; felt it worth the time to point out a some historical facts.
The original aussie type was quite small and was called the little blue dog. These were part of the early west sheep herders life and I have attached a picture of one. it looks pretty small to me.
Over time different size dogs developed depending on ranch needs and the 1950's bred type defined a taller dog. However the smaller aussies never fell out of favor and I can remember back to the early 1970's growing up in Orange County CA, (when orange county was still full of orange groves), when as young teenager we had our first nine month old rescue "regular aussie" he was 60 lbs of dog intensity. At the same time , my mom's friend purchased a "mini" aussie, just as typey and a true velcro dog; I can't remeber the exact details but she had friends in Los Angeles who owned horses and they knew of the these recent mini aussies out of L.A. county. Her comments were there were always large and small australian shepherds sheep ranchers tended to prefer the smaller size cattle ranchers prefered the larger size, and horse people she knew seemed to want the smallest of the minis. That was about forty years ago.
In 2002 we got a "mini" female aussie luna of around 30lbs, much quieter then the racetrack digging aussie kilo of my youth, but a great herder of of our 90lb tibetian mastiff/rott cross. We just lost her to cancer & ending up just getting a pup from the smallest of the aussie lines, Moxie. SHer mom was a mini adn her Dad was a even smaller, Red'nHot. she will be likely just touching the 14 inch female height mark, and likely only 20lbs or so. but even as an eleven week old puppy she shows plenty of instinct ( especially for a family dog) and is an awesome looking pup. I actually campaigned for a full size female aussie but am frankly glad we went small.
From my personal experience the main point with aussie type is they are best and happiest around active people, whatever makes the aussie dog be part of a person's life, including size, the happier it will be, they are not really suited for backyard life or oraments for rich and famous. Frisbees, camping, ranching agility and hiking are what a true western Aussie will thrive on.
Right on with the history. Thanks for sharing your great story!
Current ethical and careful Mini breeders continue to encounter challenges finding appropriate breeding choices for a variety of reasons...small geographic pools of those smaller yet typey Aussies with good herding instinct and the reluctance of many Aussie breeders with dogs on the smaller end of the scale refusing to work with Mini breeders. So they continue in their goal to produce a smaller Aussie, naturally producing some genetically pure but odd looking Minis as a result of the downsizing phenomenon I mentioned in my previous post.
A mini aussie is like a mini Great Dane; the answer to the question that nobody asked.
It's a good thing that the ASCA exists, or the aussie would be just another canine casualty of the AKC.
How is a mini supposed to heard? Really?!!
I'm on my third Red Tri right now, two concurrent. I couldn't dream of owning any other breed. They do more than herd, they protect you from muggers and vicious racoons. Wonder how I know this?
As I posted previously, many have asked the question. And very much appreciate the answer.
I've watched Minis work stock with intensity and style...sheep, cattle and ducks. A very good friend of mine is a herding instructor...she has Aussies so lots of upright breed students...and she has students with Minis that totally rock on stock. Personally, I wouldn't work my Aussies on cattle...just too dangerous for my tastes...so it naturally follows that I wouldn't work my Minis on cattle either.
Attend any ASCA Nationals and you will see awesome working stock dogs the size of well bred Minis. I've helped score stock runs at two ASCA Nationals and I've personally seen the evidence.
well think about it, the aussie is fairly consistently a medium/large breed...
so in order to get a MINI aussie 1 of 2 things had to happen...
1: mix in a small breed to bring the size down...
mixing breeds for cosmetic only reasons is looked down upon by GOOD breeders plain and simple...
or 2: they breed RUNT (the smallest in the litter) to another runt continuing the process to get the "mini" version...the problem with this method is 1:runts are typically the weakest puppies genetically, and 2: runts are NOT within show standards and GOOD breeders are breeding towards a specific standard for the breed...meaning that it would have been irresponsible breeders breeding dogs that dont look like they should, are genetically inferior, and potentially have any number of health issues, JUST to get a smaller dog.
now personally i dont like aussies in any way shape or form, they are insanely high energy and minis are even higher on the energy (i worked with a few at the doggy day care and what i say about the minis is they took the energy level of the standard and squeezed it into a smaller packeage...it is as if there going to explode...aussies NEED a job, be it agility or herding sheep, i dont suggest them for the "average" family no matter what size.
but i have no real problen with the creation of the minis as long as the breeders are doing apropriate health testing, pen hip, OFA, Cerf, Optigen ect on their lines and that they are following a breed standard...and otherwise good RESPONSIBLE, RESPECTABLE breeders.
You missed option #3: Select typey, healthy dogs with characteristic herding instinct and temperament of smaller size (size variation occurs naturally in any breed) for use in a breeding program designed to produce consistently smaller dogs of reproducible type, temperament and instinct.
The new name will be "Miniature American Shepherd" and it will be actually MORE correct than Mini Aussie as the standard Aussie did not come from Australia but was developed right here in the USA, I have no idea what they were thinking with Aussie in the name to begin with
The name Australian Shepherd is reputed to have been coined due to the fact that the Aussie was imported into the United States from Australia at the same time sheep were imported into the United States from Australia...the 1800s. The men tending these "shipped sheep" brought their little blue working dogs along with them on the voyage.
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original aussie type
And very much appreciate the answer.
