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Old 08-16-2015, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,840 posts, read 9,202,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie1 View Post
Obesity

The neutered animals tend to get obese more easily than their intact cohorts. This has been studied in cats as well as dogs. This has also been commonly seen in practice over many generations of dogs. I strongly suspect that this is due to carbohydrate laden foods (i.e. kibble) being fed to carnivores, especially the cat. You can have a big influence here by making good feeding choices in both species.


While this IS true MOST dogs & Cats become Fat do to the Thyroid Not Working Right After being put to sleep FOR the Operation! So YES getting Fix can cause an animal to become Fat! Before you blame Lack of Exercise or improper food! HAVE THYROID Tests Done!!
What makes 99% of spayed/neutered animals fat is too much food and lack of exercise. Spayed/neutered dogs that are used for hunting, herding, and various competitions, or that frequently accompany owners on hikes or play fetch or that regularly go to dog parks are seldom fat.

The 3 dogs I've had over the last 30 years have all been neutered, have all been walked off leash for at least an hour daily or been at a dog park daily, and none have been overweight. In fact, they were all on the thin side even though they had free access to food.

Of the 11 cats I've had during that time, all were neutered or spayed, and only 1 was/is fat. Sheba likes to eat, and even by cat standards, she's lazy. All the others, until they got very old, were/are very active and fairly finicky about what they eat.
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Old 08-16-2015, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Kansas
25,961 posts, read 22,126,936 times
Reputation: 26700
One of the dogs we adopted 10 years ago as a puppy from animal control in AL had no requirement for spay/neuter. The other adult dog we adopted from an animal control in MO about 3 years ago had a deposit of $20.00 which would be refunded if you came back and brought the spay/neuter receipt. I have seen much larger deposits from animal control facilities in the area of $120.00 or where the fee is about that much because they have been spayed/neutered but sadly, the most irresponsible will just go somewhere without much of a fee and not spay/neuter.

If you can't afford to spay/neuter, you can't afford a dog.
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Old 08-19-2015, 03:39 PM
 
483 posts, read 655,430 times
Reputation: 959
Very, very few people are responsible enough to handle intact dogs.
Just come visit Houston, where just ONE county shelter takes in over 15,000 animals a year. Just this month they have gotten 17 litters of puppies. 17! litters in half a month. Some litters with moms(strays mostly), the rest are left over puppies they couldn't "sell" or whatever. Its sicking.

Everyone should have to S/N here.
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Old 08-19-2015, 05:40 PM
 
12,823 posts, read 24,406,112 times
Reputation: 11042
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenniferL View Post
Many reputable breeders of large breeds are now suggesting to not spay/neuter until the pup is mature and growth plates closed. Many even demand it in their contract.
That's great if you live in the country. Here in the big city they make you pay a lot more for the license past a certain age, if not altered. That age is shy of some of the time frames that minority of breeders are putting in their contracts (and in spite of your use of "many" it is still quite a minority). That minority of breeders is clearly not targeting selling to urban folks who only want pets and have no intention to either breed or show.
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Old 08-19-2015, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Northeastern U.S.
2,080 posts, read 1,606,689 times
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My semi-urban community does not differentiate in the fees for licenses of intact and spayed/neutered dogs. If you can't pay 10-50 or $100 dollars more for the licensing of a growing intact dog once or twice; you shouldn't get a dog in the first place (if the fee is $50 more for an intact puppy/dog, you would pay it maximum two times before you neuter the dog, so you'd pay a hundred dollars extra for keeping the dog intact until it's closer to maturity, which might save you a lot more money in veterinary expenses down the line and the dog some pain and suffering). Is it fair to penalize owners of intact dogs with higher licensing fees? I don't think so; but I'd endure it to keep a dog intact, for the sake of its health, until the right time to neuter/spay.
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Old 08-20-2015, 01:04 PM
 
4,286 posts, read 4,763,472 times
Reputation: 9640
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaelti12 View Post
Very, very few people are responsible enough to handle intact dogs.
Just come visit Houston, where just ONE county shelter takes in over 15,000 animals a year. Just this month they have gotten 17 litters of puppies. 17! litters in half a month. Some litters with moms(strays mostly), the rest are left over puppies they couldn't "sell" or whatever. Its sicking.

Everyone should have to S/N here.
I can't agree more with what I bolded and underlined.

I just participated in the empty the shelter day last weekend at our city shelter. The shelter employee told me they were currently taking in about 100 animals a day (and took in about 28,000 total last year) and there is a spay/neuter law on the books. The adoption rate at the shelter was about 45% (which is up from the year before). I can only imagine what the numbers would be without the spay/neuter law.

Last edited by Rowan123; 08-20-2015 at 01:25 PM..
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Old 08-20-2015, 01:19 PM
 
376 posts, read 599,144 times
Reputation: 398
An intact animal can produce hundreds of dogs/cats in its life time, most of which will likely end up being put down.

Yes spaying/neutering is somewhat cruel to that animal, but not doing so will likely cause the death of millions of animals (the hundreds of animals born + animals they will hunt and kill during their lifetimes). A feral cat for example, kills between 3 to 20 animals a day. Assume the average killed per day is 5, 500 cats living on average 3 years will kill 2.7 million animals.
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Old 08-20-2015, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Lake Country
1,961 posts, read 2,253,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yiplong View Post
An intact animal can produce hundreds of dogs/cats in its life time, most of which will likely end up being put down.

Yes spaying/neutering is somewhat cruel to that animal, but not doing so will likely cause the death of millions of animals (the hundreds of animals born + animals they will hunt and kill during their lifetimes). A feral cat for example, kills between 3 to 20 animals a day. Assume the average killed per day is 5, 500 cats living on average 3 years will kill 2.7 million animals.
I am the OP. For the umpteenth time, the author did not in any way suggest keeping all animals intact. He described the new study data regarding the effects of S/N and made recommendations based on how the pros and cons of S/N might affect individual situations as well as on owner ability to manage intact animals in order to prevent breeding.

On the subject of cats, he recommends S/N of all adult male and all adult female cats. "The only exception would be someone with a carefully planned breeding program who is set up with a cattery."

Did you read the article?
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Old 08-21-2015, 06:09 AM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
1,538 posts, read 2,305,667 times
Reputation: 2450
I read the article; doesn't change my mind in the least about spay/neuter. For the VAST majority of pet owners, spaying/neutering is the best thing for the current pet overpopulation issue plaguing the country. There are articles/studies all over the internet to support most any viewpoint. One trip to the county shelter insures me that people don't neuter enough.

On a side note, my own personal experiences with my neutered animals over 30 years entirely contradicts this article.
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Old 08-21-2015, 07:33 AM
 
Location: Lake Country
1,961 posts, read 2,253,714 times
Reputation: 1830
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmeck View Post
I read the article; doesn't change my mind in the least about spay/neuter. For the VAST majority of pet owners, spaying/neutering is the best thing for the current pet overpopulation issue plaguing the country. There are articles/studies all over the internet to support most any viewpoint. One trip to the county shelter insures me that people don't neuter enough.

On a side note, my own personal experiences with my neutered animals over 30 years entirely contradicts this article.
I didn't ask if it changed your mind. I don't care if it changed your mind. I only care that readers learn about the newly documented effects of S/N based on several large studies and use that information to make the best decision for their pets based on their personal circumstances and abilities.

When you wrote this "Yes spaying/neutering is somewhat cruel to that animal, but not doing so will likely cause the death of millions of animals (the hundreds of animals born + animals they will hunt and kill during their lifetimes). A feral cat for example, kills between 3 to 20 animals a day. Assume the average killed per day is 5, 500 cats living on average 3 years will kill 2.7 million animals." it seemed as if you didn't read the article. Since the author specifically recommends S/N for cats.

The author provided guidelines in the article that would result in the vast majority of pet owners still electing to S/N.

One cannot lump articles with studies...they are as different as night and day. Articles are generally the author's opinion and if presented as unbiased journalism then certainly still swayed by the author's perspective. Studies reveal collected data and correlations leading to possible conclusions. One can, and should, evaluate the integrity of individual studies. The author identified the article as his opinion but also linked the studies for readers to examine.

Your personal experience is anecdotal. As is mine. That doesn't mean our personal experiences are worthless but it does mean they have no bearing whatsoever on the statistical significance of the study findings.

Your trip to the shelter surely reflects the fact that some animals should've been S/N but IMO it way more reflects the fact that people fail on these counts:

1. Do research, think critically and choose wisely before getting a dog...research the breed or mix regarding temperament/health issues/trainability, research the source (rescue/shelter/breeder), research what is it really like living with a dog for 10-18 years
2. Train/manage their dog(s)
3. Realize that living with dogs costs money and be willing/able to spend/borrow that money or rehome/euthanize the dog if circumstances prevent the care needed to keep the dog comfortable
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