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It was an 8 week course put on by a local obedience training club.
Here is a rough syllabus of what was covered by week:
1. just owners present; expectations, rules, etc.
2. sit, release command, accept praise, watch me/attention
3. sit, stay, circling
4. heeling, down, come
5. sit-stay w/distance, charging recall, down, sit for exam
6. heeling w/pace changes, sit-stay w/distractions, down-stay w/distractions, sit for exam, formal recall
7. stand, stay/down increase distance
8. more heeling work
It was only $55 since our dog was a rescue. There were about 20 or so dogs on any given night. Probably about 7 small dogs, 7 medium, and 4 large.
Overall the class was alright. We had most every command/concept down before the class except for standing and heeling. Those were both new for us.
The class is all about baiting and rewarding. I'm still very new to all things dog, but I'm not sure how I feel about this method. My dog will do just about anything you ask of him if you bait him with cheese, hot dog, ****, whatever. But take that away and things get a little trickier. Will he still obey? Probably, but not with absolute certainty. I'm reading a training book know that likens bait training to bribery.
During some type of informal exam by the instructor I asked Sammy to "sit" as the instructor approached to pet him while he was to sit nicely. I asked him once, he didn't comply, so I gave him a correction with his choke collar. She kind of reprimanded me implying I need to reward the positive and not focus on the negative.
She knows more than I do, but in mind it just doesn't work all of the time. Why would I reward a "sit?" He could sit when we adopted him up from the shelter. IMO, if he understands something but chooses not to do it, he should be corrected. I guess that just doesn't fit with their training philosophy. Whatever, so be it; I didn't really dwell on it and it wasn't a big deal.
Sammy was probably the second or third most obedient dog in the class. But like I said, it's all about the bait. Put him in a stressful or even distracting environment and oh how things might change.
I doubt I'll enroll in the club's intermediate course. I think I'm going to read some more and get some training videos unless another local club interests me.
Sammy isn't bad at all; hell, he's not even my dog really, who knows why I've invested this much time and effort?. I just feel after six months he should be a little bit better than he his. It's probably more me than him, but I'm trying.
I wouldn't call it bribery as much as I'd call it association. I have a certain sound I use only when I want her to come to me. She associates that sound with the treat I'd give her while I was setting the association in her brain. Now, she gets a treat only on occasion, but she drops whatever she's doing and runs to my side everytime she hears that sound. Unless she's chasing a rabbit. We're working on that.
You can always mix it up, the dog doesn't need to get a treat every time.
If I'm giving my dog a treat anyway, I'll usually ask them to sit, but sometimes I'm just asking them to sit and there's no treat for that. Sometimes there will be praise ("good girl!"), at other times I'm asking them to sit because they're getting out of hand and they better sit now! No praise on that one !
It sounds like Sammy did well in class and if you both had fun you might want to go on to the next class. But if you don't, I'm sure you can continue to work with Sammy yourself. It all depends on how much you want to train your dog. Some people really get into it, for others, just knowing the basic commands is enough.
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Riveree always has good training advice...
Just my opinion:
Treat training is fine for agility dogs, "movie tricks" and some other advanced training, but I don't like it for basic obedience or any working dog. For SIT, STAY, COME and HEEL, the dog needs to know that you are the boss and your commands are to be obeyed. Treat training for basic obedience just seems a bit co-dependent to me. The dog's entire training foundation is a house of cards if it depends entirely on the hot-dog in your pocket. I don't think there is anything wrong with humanely administered corrections for negative behavior (e.g. choke collar to drive home that the dog needs to sit right away the first time you say the command). I look at the relationship between a dog and the owner as a parent-child relationship: Lots of love both ways but authority only goes one way. You aren't buddies, you aren't co-workers, YOU'RE THE BOSS. The dog needs to sit because he respects you, not because he knows you have cheese.
All that said, with a young dog that cheese in your pocket can come in very handy. Just make sure that's not the only reason he comes to call.
How old is this dog? Keep in mind that you can pound lessons into a dog's head everyday from the time he's 8 weeks old but he's still going to rebel somewhere around 16 weeks, then around 12 months, then around 2 years and maybe again at 3. Each time it will seem like he's forgotten everything you taught him. If you stay after him, he'll recover. Don't let him learn that you will give up before he does.
We just finished training with our dog and yes, you can sometimes not give the treat. I usually have baggy full of meat scraps or whatever but in the morning I may forget or just can't be bothered and she's pretty good on the leave it and so on.
Listening when there is another dog or cat or skunk or whatever..that is a little harder.
I agree with Riveree. Our dogs have been through a few obedience classes and have earned their CGC and pet therapy certification.
With regards to treats, you have to start changing the reward frequency. Think slot machine. The slot machine doesn't reward each time...it does so on a varied and unpredictable method. Use verbal praise (we prefer the clicker) when you don't reward with a treat. You need to keep your dog on their toes to guess when the next time they will "hit the jackpot" and get their treat for a command well done.
Also, start placing your dog in tougher situations to work on his ability to listen and do as you command. For us, we took our dogs to various parks to work on their obedience skills. The park provided a place where children were yelling, screaming and running around. We also took our dogs to our city's stock yards...talk about distracting smells and tons of visual distractions. Another one we used was going to PetSmart. There are tons of dogs without manners there...so it's the perfect place to work with your dog. The important part of obedience proficiency is that you have to practice your dog's training in various environments.
FYI, with all the training our dogs have had, I would bet money that if they were off leash and saw a rabbit, they would not return with a "come when called." They would return once the initial chase was over.
Don't correct the dog for not sitting. Place the dog in the sit position, then praise him being a good dog. Toss the treats, the praise will go alot further in the long run.
When I was first introduced to clicker training / positive training / treat training.... I remember that I questioned it too.
I've since changed my mind about all of the above.
They've been using this method to train zoo and other wild animals for years and years. Dogs are no different.
Positive / treat based / clicker training works for all ages of animals.
After they're trained, you use fewer treats. Treats are not a forever thing.
Congratulations on the first class. I'd go back for the next class and keep an open mind.
Last edited by World Citizen; 11-04-2008 at 05:23 PM..
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