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Old 05-10-2014, 09:10 PM
 
26,191 posts, read 21,591,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
Low property taxes keep prices down so people can afford homes, and create construction jobs. Sales tax gets money from those who can afford to spend.

I'd increase sales tax and add $1 per gallon to the gas tax, because I drive very little.

NIMBY attitude huh?
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations View Post
NIMBY attitude huh?
Just imposing a similar ideology as the OP? If you're gonna dream, go big.
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:20 PM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,822,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun View Post
Low property taxes encourage speculation and bubbles, which makes housing unaffordable for the poor and working class. Sales tax discourages business transactions and kills jobs.

In an ideal system I'd jack property taxes up to the skies and eliminate all other taxation.
Again, since you must have missed it; property tax is the only tax that is not dependent on the income you make. As in if you lose your income stream, you can cut back on spending and other things, but you still will have to pay the tax somehow even if you cannot afford it. The penalty for not paying is the seizure of your home; no other tax has the punishment of seizing your property.

Low property taxes does not fuel speculation (that would be demand), as places with high property taxes have plenty of speculation (I live in Miami and there is plenty going on, while in low property tax Knoxville, TN, there is no speculation and bubbles).

One factor that makes housing affordable is tacking on hundreds of dollars a month for someone to pay just to live in their home. Even better, this amount can change, and it can change on factors the homeowner has no control over.

You seem like the type that does not value property rights, in which property ownership to you is a threat to your ideological objectives.

The amount of sales tax people pay is pretty darn small. If someone even spends $2k a month buying stuff, even at a sky high 10% tax (many places have low or no tax on food), that is still only $200 a month towards tax. Property taxes in many areas (including where I live) are much higher than that per month, and rather add to the difficulty of affording a home (that and insurance if you have a mortgage).

A property tax is truly the only way the gov can for sure extract tax from the people. Every other tax can feasibly be avoided, but people will always need shelter as the only option is being homeless. This little property tax scheme is just a way for the gov to ensure itself of tax revenue with the threat of homelessness to enforce it. The gov does this because they know with an increase in a sales tax, people can just alter their spending habits, whereas with a property tax, it is not like people can just root up and leave, nor explore any options to avoid paying more in tax besides living homeless.
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:24 PM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,822,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations View Post
Rents do not always exceed the cost of buying including the exemptions. Sales taxes are regressive by nature and your amount of property taxes can be controlled to done degree by where you live and the value of said property
That is one problem; why should someone be penalized because they live on valuable property? How does the value of property determine the level of services someone uses? Why should taxes force people to live places they otherwise would not live? The value of the property is not controlled by the owner, yet the owner is taxed like it is. And again, the property tax is not determined by a person's ability to pay.
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:25 PM
 
26,191 posts, read 21,591,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Again, since you must have missed it; property tax is the only tax that is not dependent on the income you make. As in if you lose your income stream, you can cut back on spending and other things, but you still will have to pay the tax somehow even if you cannot afford it. The penalty for not paying is the seizure of your home; no other tax has the punishment of seizing your property.

Low property taxes does not fuel speculation (that would be demand), as places with high property taxes have plenty of speculation (I live in Miami and there is plenty going on, while in low property tax Knoxville, TN, there is no speculation and bubbles).

One factor that makes housing affordable is tacking on hundreds of dollars a month for someone to pay just to live in their home. Even better, this amount can change, and it can change on factors the homeowner has no control over.

You seem like the type that does not value property rights, in which property ownership to you is a threat to your ideological objectives.

The amount of sales tax people pay is pretty darn small. If someone even spends $2k a month buying stuff, even at a sky high 10% tax (many places have low or no tax on food), that is still only $200 a month towards tax. Property taxes in many areas (including where I live) are much higher than that per month, and rather add to the difficulty of affording a home (that and insurance if you have a mortgage).

A property tax is truly the only way the gov can for sure extract tax from the people. Every other tax can feasibly be avoided, but people will always need shelter as the only option is being homeless. This little property tax scheme is just a way for the gov to ensure itself of tax revenue with the threat of homelessness to enforce it. The gov does this because they know with an increase in a sales tax, people can just alter their spending habits, whereas with a property tax, it is not like people can just root up and leave, nor explore any options to avoid paying more in tax besides living homeless.


Sales tax isn't income based and if you fail to pay your income tax you certainly can have assets seized. If property's taxes are raised too much the same thing happens in your increased sales tax theory. People will relocate, prices decline and so would revenue
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:27 PM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,822,893 times
Reputation: 25191
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
Low property taxes keep prices down so people can afford homes, and create construction jobs. Sales tax gets money from those who can afford to spend.

I'd increase sales tax and add $1 per gallon to the gas tax, because I drive very little.
Better yet, the gov should start controlling their spending better. The gov at any level does not need more money, the gov has shown it wastes without much regard, and sums it up to "that is just how things are". The voters, the ultimate say in the matter, are too brainwashed to ever want real change, all get scared by the hype regarding change as most people are always adverse to change. Despite the constant complaints, the same people get elected over and over again.
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:27 PM
 
26,191 posts, read 21,591,383 times
Reputation: 22772
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
That is one problem; why should someone be penalized because they live on valuable property? How does the value of property determine the level of services someone uses? Why should taxes force people to live places they otherwise would not live? The value of the property is not controlled by the owner, yet the owner is taxed like it is. And again, the property tax is not determined by a person's ability to pay.

People decide where they are going to live. If you buy property in an area that has 3% property tax you know what you are getting yourself into. Don't act as though property taxes are a surprise
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:33 PM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,822,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations View Post
Sales tax isn't income based and if you fail to pay your income tax you certainly can have assets seized. If property's taxes are raised too much the same thing happens in your increased sales tax theory. People will relocate, prices decline and so would revenue
A person has a choice to purchase items or not. Even if they choose to purchase items, constraint spending will still have them paying just a few dollars a month in sales tax, whereas they would be forced to spend hundreds of dollars a month for property tax.

Most people have their income tax automatically withheld, not paying income tax is not a factor. And again, paying income tax is dependent on a person's ability to pay; the seizure of assets only comes because a person voluntarily chose to do this by way of not paying the tax. A property tax does not care if you ever had the means and just chose not to pay. A person does not pay income tax if they had no income, they do pay property tax though.

And why should people have to relocate? Why should the gov have the power to influence where and when people move based on the tax rate? Why should a person be priced out of a home because of taxes? And lastly, why would anyone in their right mind think this is all perfectly normal? It completely baffles me on how anyone advocates for property taxes as they are now.
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,625 posts, read 12,296,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
Low property taxes keep prices down so people can afford homes, and create construction jobs. Sales tax gets money from those who can afford to spend.

I'd increase sales tax and add $1 per gallon to the gas tax, because I drive very little.
I guess sarcasm is out of fashion?
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:40 PM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,822,893 times
Reputation: 25191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations View Post
People decide where they are going to live. If you buy property in an area that has 3% property tax you know what you are getting yourself into. Don't act as though property taxes are a surprise
Where did I state it is a surprise? Just because it is known does not mean it is right.

Three percent yes, but years later the property value can increase, thus you are paying more, even though you did not do a darn thing to increase this. The gov also can also increase the tax rate (hence these idiotic prop 13 type laws to stop this).

Again, while at no time I ever stated to eliminate the property tax, it needs to be reformed;

In regards to a person's primary home:

- it is not based on a person's ability to pay, this should be changed.
- consequence is seizure of a person's property, this should be changed.
- it is linked to the value of the property, this needs to change as the value of property has no connection to a person's use of services.
- renters need to be included in all exemptions owners get.
- gov services should be aligned more in who uses what; instead of taxes being based on property, it should be broken down, like school taxes based on how many kids in school.
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