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50ishK median HH income. 189K median home price. Almost 4x gross income? Jesus, enough said. House poor dynamics are made of such ratios. Lower the COL or increase prevailing wages, but the current trend is completely unsustainable. We got way too much economic marginalization amongst those employed. Just because the second quintile in this Country is barely eeking out a ROI for their troubles, doesn't mean we're not screwed as a collective. People in the second quintile ought to start acting like what's going on under them is serious and affects us all, instead of siding with the damn capital owner class as if to pretend they belong to the same interest class. Get real already. This thread is exemplary of this uncle tom dynamic.
Underemployment is a widespread cancer in this Country. Retirement insolvency due to the bait n switch that is the 401k system is a time bomb waiting to go off. Free trade agreements have not been in the interest of the working class in the least. Screw low inflation on consumer electronics, inflation on the stuff that matters is through the roof. Housing and education being the two goliaths keeping everybody down.
What we have in America is a mexican standoff. Capital owners say it's the corporate tax rate that keeps them away, but any measure of proletariat increase in wages is met with the same tired wince. They can't have the cake and eat it too. If Americans can't afford your product, fine have the indian and chinese emerging middle class buy your crap, but you're not using the sovereignty of the USA to protect your legal interests when things get testy abroad. Corporate Multinationalism is treasonous and I'm sick and tired of these corporations using our sweat and blood (via the poor and the US military) to protect their economic interest while making unemotional "it's just business" labor moves away from the American proletariat. It's time to overthrow these corporate lackeys in Washington and make the govt work for the proletariat's interest again.
The problem is we have no legitimate Labor third party. So what's gonna happen is, this Country WILL become more Western European. The swaths of economically dispossessed in this Country are already here. It can't be escaped. Corporations won't back off their krony capitalist stance and they refuse to finance the American labor re-tooling/re-education, opting to the let the desperate masses increase the college loan debt that's leaving most worse off when accounting for prevailing wages, so the people will demand the net be expanded, as is currently being expressed by support for Sanders. Corporate interests won't let such a candidate see the light of day of course.
It doesn't have to go down this way. But private industry got greedy, so expanded social net and declining standard of living it is. There's a bunch of keyboard warriors on here, but the reality is that these small potato "business owners" ain't going anywhere expat, they're staying right here in the USA fending amongst the rest of the great unwashed. So it's in their interest to give a crap about conditions in the lower 3 quintiles of income distribution, and stop with the partisan demagoguery for entities neither of which work in their best interest.
I like where it said raising the taxes on the rich will reduce incentives to work, save etc. Gaines in worker productivity haven't been rolled over into worker compensation. What do the workers have to work for? Same pay and more debts? Going backward. The top is getting a raise but the bottom isn't.
Paper growth looks good on paper.
Where he was 100% wrong is when he says that raising income taxes results in less investment. Just the opposite is true. Business investment is tax free, so every raise in income tax rates pushes more money into business investment. Of course, that would force rich people to actually get their hands dirty running a business instead of just buying stocks and raking it in.
2% growth is a total joke for small businesses and middle class
And i don't even believe in this 2%.
Middle class is angry, because they're the "middle child".. above working class/poverty but below upper middle class/wealthy..
they want to live like the wealthy, and want more than their avg middle class lifestyle, but know they can't. middle class of all cultures in history are the insecure class..
also, many people who claim to be middle class aren't.. there are many entitled working class who think they are middle class, but not. these are the most vocal..
wasteful government (tax payer funded) research...
The National Science Foundation has granted more than $200,000 to a research project that is trying to determine how and why Wikipedia is sexist. Wikipedia’s War on Woman?
The National Science Foundation spent $856,000 to teach mountain lions how to walk on treadmills as part of a research project whose aim was to better understand mountain lions’ instincts.
The National Institute of Health funded a study to see if mothers love dogs as much as they love kids. Regardless of the results, this experiment cost taxpayers $371,026.
National Institute of Health’s Center for Alternative and Complimentary Medicine spent $387,000 to study the effects of Swedish massages on rabbits.
The Department of Interior spent $10,000 to monitor the growth rate of saltmarsh grass. In other words, the government is paying people to watch grass grow.
The federal government has granted $804,254 for the development of a smartphone game called “Kiddio: Food Fight.†The game is intended to teach parents how to convince their children to try and eat new healthier food choices.
The National Endowment for the Humanities has provided $47,000 for undergraduate classes that teach students about laughing and humor.
If the mere fact that you can give examples of wasteful research mean that research is not a worthy pursuit, then to be consistent the mere fact that wasteful business ventures exist must also, by the same token, mean that the government should tax the daylights out of entrepreneurs, right?
Oh. My. So Europe is the standard by which we measure.
We were once a nation of opportunity. European immigrants came here to prosper and make something of themselves, all the while contributing to society. (Although I disagree with the treatment of Native Americans back then, this is not the thread or forum.) Now we should just happy to not be taxed quite as much as they are.
Are you at all familiar with Greece...
Greece suffered precisely due to people not paying their taxes, and also due to generous government retirements. Not due to taxes used to invest in science, education, or infrastructure.
Our country was once great, because it once invested in science and technology (space race), and infrastructure (interstate highway system). And had higher taxes to do it. Between World War II and the Reagan era, the top bracket was much higher than now. And we prospered.
Now our tax rates are much lower, and look how much inequality and stagnation we have. I'm not saying this is necessarily a direct result of low taxes (correlation does not prove causation), however, at the least, there is ZERO evidence for the contrary claim that low taxes stimulate the economy, beyond the personal anecdotes of petch751 et al. which can be counterbalanced by the tales of those whose work was ruined by a loss of government funds.
Yes, there IS wasteful government spending, no doubt. But the question perhaps should be if the private sector is any better - they spend wastefully as well. If you argue that wasteful public spending means taxes should be lower, then why does wasteful corporate spending not mean either that taxes should be higher or that businesses should reduce the prices of their products?
Be grateful you own your home; taxes are higher on rental property.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IDoPhysicsPhD
It's unusual for renters to pay rental tax.
Lol no..
I own rental property, and trust me - renters absolutely pay the taxes. They might not get an actual tax bill in the mail, but I promise you they're paying it.
Don't take my word for it though. Go to Zillow and pick out a house in your area at random. See where it gives you the estimated mortgage payment? That's just a rough estimate, and you can add inn a few hundred $$ to that for taxes and insurance the total monthly payment.
Now look at the rental estimate for that same house. It's even more, isn't it.
Thinking renters don't pay property tax is one of the biggest fallacies ever. In fact I've known people before who actually thought they were getting over by renting instead of buying for that very reason. "We don't have to pay property taxes."
I own rental property, and trust me - renters absolutely pay the taxes. They might not get an actual tax bill in the mail, but I promise you they're paying it.
Don't take my word for it though. Go to Zillow and pick out a house in your area at random. See where it gives you the estimated mortgage payment? That's just a rough estimate, and you can add inn a few hundred $$ to that for taxes and insurance the total monthly payment.
Now look at the rental estimate for that same house. It's even more, isn't it.
Thinking renters don't pay property tax is one of the biggest fallacies ever. In fact I've known people before who actually thought they were getting over by renting instead of buying for that very reason. "We don't have to pay property taxes."
Oh, yes you do...
It's highly location dependent. Try the exercise in a VHCOL area like San Francisco and see the renters laugh all the way to the bank...
Landlords can only charge what the market can bear, whether it covers their costs or not.
It's highly location dependent. Try the exercise in a VHCOL area like San Francisco and see the renters laugh all the way to the bank...
Landlords can only charge what the market can bear, whether it covers their costs or not.
Ok.
Lol I'd love to own rental property in SF.. Densely populated city with FAR more people than available real estate? Yeah, the renters are the ones laughing lol.
Last edited by Upstate67; 02-28-2016 at 08:16 AM..
The middle class is angry because they bought into the myth that a degree from a 3rd tier college makes you a 5%er. Median household income is a bit more than $50K. Television and the media have told people that $50K is near-poverty level and everyone should be able to afford the trophy home on reality TV, the luxury car, elaborate vacations, and a luxurious retirement. Only the top-5% have that and there's an enormous sense of entitlement that an average intelligence, educated, and work ethic person should have that life.
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