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Old 03-16-2016, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,069 posts, read 7,241,915 times
Reputation: 17146

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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
Agriculture is just one example. In 1950 it took 1/3rd of all working people to feed the people in the country. Today it only takes 1.5% of the population to grow a tremendous increased amount of food.

If we had the same type of telephone systems as in 1950 today, there are not enough working women to staff the telephone operators that would be needed to keep telephones working the way they did then.

Back then they were worried as some people are today as they saw jobs disappear (I know as I was in the work force then). But back then, they would never even have dreamed there would be all the IT jobs there are today as an example.

That is just two examples, of changes in jobs over the years, and the re-allocation of jobs. People are working on the new jobs as I write this.

Experts tell us, that just 10 years from now, that half the jobs people will working at in this country have not even been invented yet.
Certainly there is some truth to that. Jobs like "director of social media operations" would not have existed in 2007, let alone 1997 or before.

Still, it seems that the bar is set ever higher. Being willing to work hard is not nearly enough.
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Old 03-16-2016, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,668 posts, read 6,596,333 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
That is just two examples, of changes in jobs over the years, and the re-allocation of jobs.
Jobs were reallocated in the past because consumers shared in productivity gains. In other words, they had more money to spend so new industries arose to supply the demand.

Since ~1980 though, median wages have been flat, and consumption was kept boosted only by escalating debt and a temporary rise in workforce participation. Our consumer-capitalist system is unsustainable unless consumer buying power rises in step with productivity gains. So that's one problem.

The other is that computers and robotics will soon be capable enough to render a growing portion of the human population unemployable at a decent wage. So even if consumers shared in productivity gains, jobs would still decline.
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Old 03-16-2016, 05:40 PM
 
473 posts, read 502,518 times
Reputation: 339
Female slave labor in office work for college graduates earning 1/3 of male pay working every SECOND of shift; major sexual harassment/hostile work environment from male workers who work for 1 hour a day for triple the pay. No overtime at all for hourly employees until the females just walk out of the place for fear of law suit as management is negligent, unemployment denied.

Rest of the work went to Indian business owners who looked around at all this US plenitude and took business back to Indian to pay people $2 an hour(day?).

Fair? Get real! Politicians only interested in the wealthy; increasingly US lower-middle class advised not to even use US colleges and just work as a fast food/retail servant.

It's called headed for HELL! And all are too stupid or tortured/stressed to even bother giving a crap!

You find another country that will give a **** if something bad happens to US! All the internet entertainment will run just fine from India so will be sick satisfaction moment for whole world when US has problems!
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Old 03-16-2016, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,530 posts, read 8,868,319 times
Reputation: 7602
It might be possible in the future that robots with Artificial Intelligence could do all the jobs being done currently by Humans. The only exceptions would probably be things like music, acting, fiction writers and other forms of art. With a controlled population Robots could produce enough for the "Basic Needs".

Human nature being what it is I doubt that will happen in our lifetimes. Maybe that is what God has planned for us in Eternity? Heaven will be made up of the souls that have the qualities to get along in a perfect world. Hell will be composed of those rejected by God to enter Heaven.
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Old 03-16-2016, 06:40 PM
 
11,411 posts, read 7,809,020 times
Reputation: 21923
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
"Today's money" means it is corrected for inflation. That's what 50% of GDP is currently. I don't mind educating you, but it would be nice if you admitted that you don't understand economics.

Per capita GDP rises faster than inflation. This is the result of productivity increases, mostly due to the utilization of technology. On average in the last 150 years the US real per capita GDP has risen 3%/yr. When I said "$28k/yr in today's money" I was being as conservative as I could be, to give you a point of reference. That's assuming that real GDP/capita is the same as now. Zero economic growth.

If GDP/capita continues to rise at 3% above inflation, then 30 years from now 50% of GDP would be equivalent to $68k in today's money. Meaning that a single individual would be able to afford a living standard equal to person making $68k now. And that's without working.
Why would GDP suddenly rise at 3% over inflation when it hasn't done that in the last 10 years? The 150 year average is meaningless in today's economy.

U.S. economy set to grow less than 3% for the 10th straight year - MarketWatch
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Old 03-16-2016, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,495,743 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
Why would GDP suddenly rise at 3% over inflation when it hasn't done that in the last 10 years? The 150 year average is meaningless in today's economy.

U.S. economy set to grow less than 3% for the 10th straight year - MarketWatch
And that is with the 3% artificial bump that changing how we calculate the GDP gave us.
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Old 03-16-2016, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,668 posts, read 6,596,333 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
Why would GDP suddenly rise at 3% over inflation when it hasn't done that in the last 10 years? The 150 year average is meaningless in today's economy.
Once the debt escalation gravy train finally derailed in 2008, we've been left with the steaming pile of crap we've spent the last 40 years building. I can't believe it's risen at all.

Trust me, if we manage to get our economy on a functional track again, we will exceed 3% growth easily. We need to close the trade deficit, distribute the wealth, and support high productivity investment.

But note that the $28k/yr you were complaining about was based on zero growth. Now you are complaining that 3% is too high. You are starting to sound like an automatic arguing machine.
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Old 03-16-2016, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,865 posts, read 25,154,836 times
Reputation: 19084
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
The other is that computers and robotics will soon be capable enough to render a growing portion of the human population unemployable at a decent wage. So even if consumers shared in productivity gains, jobs would still decline.
Nothing new. 2/3rds of the workforce used to work in the primary sector. Now that's around 2%.
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Old 03-16-2016, 11:50 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,865 posts, read 25,154,836 times
Reputation: 19084
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
Why would GDP suddenly rise at 3% over inflation when it hasn't done that in the last 10 years? The 150 year average is meaningless in today's economy.

U.S. economy set to grow less than 3% for the 10th straight year - MarketWatch
Actually, he keeps talking about GDP per capita. It hasn't grown at 3% for the last 150 years. More in the 1.5-2% area.
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Old 03-17-2016, 12:07 AM
 
Location: USA
6,230 posts, read 6,924,987 times
Reputation: 10784
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
I'll bet that's what the "free trade" supporters were thinking too...

Sure there will be new types of jobs created, but they certainly will not employ a bulk of people like previous industries like manufacturing did. These jobs will be for the top few percentage of intelligence and creativity. Those who went to the top colleges, have a good network, etc.
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