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Old 05-08-2016, 04:58 PM
 
1,766 posts, read 1,227,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
There I must disagree with you.

Pick up a copy (or download an audio copy from a public library) of On the Brink, Hank Paulson's excellent first-person account of the Crisis as Secretary of the Treasury (a Republican under President Bush). Paulson had previously been head of Goldman Sachs, of course, and was very much a free-market guy...

... and then immediately read (or listen to) Stress Test, Tim Geithner's excellent first-person account as Secretary of the Treasury (officially a registered Independent, but self-proclaimed progressive, under President Obama). Geithner had previously been head of the New York Federal Reserve Bank and previously held several senior positions inside federal agencies... and in his book he doesn't hide his disdain for the free-market Republicans.

I suggest both books because it is interesting that these two US Secretaries of the Treasury who have substantive ideological differences independently agree as to the facts, the causes, and the solutions.

Let me say that again -- they agree as to the facts, the causes, and the solutions.

And, one other thing, it is heartening that neither let ideology get in the way of doing the right things to stave off a worldwide financial collapse that would have resulted in a deep depression replete with tent cities and mass starvation.

The seeds of the great recession were sown in public policy encouraging ever-more people to purchase homes -- especially those who were quite far down the economic ladder -- in the hopes of creating economic progress and an "ownership society." Because, of course, everyone knows that the price of houses only goes up, right? And of course changes in laws and policies allowing ever-more securitization of opaque instruments resulting in the alphabet-soup of financial products, with ineffective government regulation because of a hodge-podge of regulatory fiefdoms overseen by disparate Congressional committees unwilling to rationalize the regulatory structure.

At the end of the day, many of the things have been fixed, but more importantly the government has many more tools to deal with another crisis, it has successfully forced financial institutions to shore up capital and change business practices to reduce the chance of another crisis in the first place, and to a certain extent has rationalized the regulatory framework despite the resistance of career government employees and the Congressional committees who oversee them (that is, who feed on their campaign contributions).

We are in much, much better shape. We're not done yet fixing all the problems, but we are in much better shape.
You want people to pick up and read books from CROOKS like Paulson and Geithner. Paulson was what...free market guy? Paulson (who made over $400 million dollars from Goldman-Sachs stock options before joining George Bush’s government), who essentially robbed American taxpayers to save his friends on Wall Street.

I tell you what, nothing was more bizarre than witnessing the bullying Paulson and his trembling shadow Bernanke appear like magistrates of social reconstitution before Congress, putting a gun to the heads of unsuspecting congressional leaders, demanding trillions of taxpayer dollars to ensure the salvation of Western Civilization, something of which only Paulson was now capable, insisting Congress approve a scheme whereby Paulson could give money to whomever he chose, and demanding a guarantee that no one connected in any way with the blatant act of highway robbery (the ‘bailout’ being reconstituted euphemistically as a ‘rescue’, first, and then as a ‘conservatorship’) could ever be held legally accountable after the crime.
Paulson later told a colleague: ‘It didn’t have to be a trillion dollars. It could have been anything! But it had to sound big.’ He wanted to scare legislators and the President into giving him what he wanted. He haunted Congress and George Bush with the picture of banks collapsing, riots, revolution, tanks in the streets, Washington D.C., and New York on fire. Washington swallowed its collective tongue (there were resistors) and gave Paulson $500 billion with few questions asked, few strings attached. Later, after giving away his stash, Paulson refused to divulge to the American public the names of the private institutions to which the cash grants had been made, concerned that stigma might attach to institutions so unsubtly graced (and so needing to be graced).

We are in a very deep hole Mr. Sporty. And it will take America almost a generation to get out of the hole we have all dug, with the help of Mister Paulson and his ‘free market’ ideology. Wall Street is gone, Mr. Sporty. The investment banks you so admire, which helped to fuel the global free-market bubble, and fly proudly the great American flag of world financial leadership, were begging the government for money in 2009; once proud titans, now hat-in-hand, begging Congress for their own survival. How the mighty have fallen!

The ‘free-market’ is gone, too, Mr. Sporty. We are heading, inevitably, into an environment of protectionism, of tariffs, of limited trade, of national responses to an international crisis, to international political realignment, probably to world war, see TRUMP for more details. And the ideology of the vainglorious ‘free-market system’, wherein noble and virtuous corporate leaders and financiers would be wise and capable of disciplining themselves, will not be mentioned again by serious policy-makers for at least another half-century or so. American capitalism has shamed itself on a huge public stage. American capitalism has given back all it won after a century of battle with Marxist dogma, given it all back and then some, because greedy bankers and politicians could not discipline themselves and limit their own obsessive needs to win.

Suicides, mental illness, alcoholism, divorce, crime….these are all real side effects of the destruction of our economy. What can the new elected government do to solve the problems of economic collapse during this necessary period of deflation that is in front of us? Not much really. Government can provide support systems for its citizens, extend unemployment benefits, generate government jobs to help reconstruct the infrastructure, protect savings in the self-destructing banking system. All the trillions of dollars the Fed has been throwing at the collapsing financial balloon of the global economy hasn't stop and will not stop the ship from sinking. One thing government can and must do, however, is to raise taxes on the very rich Americans to provide social support systems for those who have been impoverished by errors, sins, and misdeeds committed mostly by America’s rich. You see, the danger the richest class faces now, if they resist such collective sharing of the wealth during the Deflation-Cycle, is that they might lose everything in a social revolution, which is always a possibility during a deflationary period. History shows many examples of inflexible arrogant rich classes being stripped of their wealth and driven in to exile during Deflation-Cycles, when the moral imperative changes sides, joins forces with the weak.

One wonders why Paulson has not joined the monastery by now after his ‘free market’ doctrine has helped to turn the American and global financial gargantua into a paper junkyard; and has turned the financial promises of America’s once-proud corporations into a kaleidoscope of shrinking visions, corporate corruption, and a rattled pyramid of junk-bonds.

 
Old 05-08-2016, 06:40 PM
 
Location: moved
13,666 posts, read 9,744,263 times
Reputation: 23493
Quote:
Originally Posted by C2BP View Post
...see TRUMP for more details. ...
Ha! I should have surmised that this was ultimately what this thread is all about!
 
Old 05-08-2016, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,668 posts, read 6,606,973 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by C2BP View Post
American capitalism has given back all it won after a century of battle with Marxist dogma, given it all back and then some, because greedy bankers and politicians could not discipline themselves and limit their own obsessive needs to win.
As a side note I do believe the Nazi and communist threats were the main reason we had such a low wealth disparity from the early 30's to late 70's. We needed a strong economy and public support to acheive world domination. For the oligarchs, power first then wealth.

Quote:
You see, the danger the richest class faces now, if they resist such collective sharing of the wealth during the Deflation-Cycle, is that they might lose everything in a social revolution, which is always a possibility during a deflationary period. History shows many examples of inflexible arrogant rich classes being stripped of their wealth and driven in to exile during Deflation-Cycles, when the moral imperative changes sides, joins forces with the weak.
Nope. Oligarchs have managed to control the masses rather well with far less sophisticated spying and propaganda than we have now. Plus I've seen no sign of the sort of courage that would be needed for a revolution. Rather the masses are unwilling to risk *anything* and are confused, divided, heavily distracted, and medicated.
 
Old 05-08-2016, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Ontario, NY
3,515 posts, read 7,790,476 times
Reputation: 4293
Quote:
Originally Posted by C2BP View Post
You want people to pick up and read books from CROOKS like Paulson and Geithner. Paulson was what...free market guy? Paulson (who made over $400 million dollars from Goldman-Sachs stock options before joining George Bush’s government), who essentially robbed American taxpayers to save his friends on Wall Street.
Robbed? Out of the 430 Billion dollars the government lent Wall Street under the TARP program, only 714 million was outstanding by September 30, 2015. While I agree I don't like the fact that the government bailed out people that made bad investments, the alternative would be let let the entire market collapse plunging the United States, possibly the World into another instant great depression. You can spin your conspiracy theory's all you want, I for one am happy that they made the best decision in a difficult situation.
 
Old 05-08-2016, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Berkeley Neighborhood, Denver, CO USA
17,717 posts, read 29,873,867 times
Reputation: 33327
The best aspect of these rants is that they always increase the demand for medication.
Great for the 'Murican economy.
I plan on boosting the craft brewing industry in the next few minutes.
 
Old 05-08-2016, 10:11 PM
 
1,766 posts, read 1,227,325 times
Reputation: 2904
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGromit View Post
Robbed? Out of the 430 Billion dollars the government lent Wall Street under the TARP program, only 714 million was outstanding by September 30, 2015. While I agree I don't like the fact that the government bailed out people that made bad investments, the alternative would be let let the entire market collapse plunging the United States, possibly the World into another instant great depression. You can spin your conspiracy theory's all you want, I for one am happy that they made the best decision in a difficult situation.
Paulson is a Crook and he belongs in prison. He is a Robber Baron. Our country has been hijacked by criminals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hhPvas-Q8Y

And here is another Robber Baron and criminal Geithner;
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xus_PYRKSvA

Last edited by C2BP; 05-08-2016 at 10:57 PM..
 
Old 05-08-2016, 10:44 PM
 
1,766 posts, read 1,227,325 times
Reputation: 2904
Quote:
As a side note I do believe the Nazi and communist threats were the main reason we had such a low wealth disparity from the early 30's to late 70's. We needed a strong economy and public support to acheive world domination. For the oligarchs, power first then wealth.
I agree, but don't forget that we also had very strong labor unions back then. Reagan administration is responsible for destruction of labor unions in America. Then after the collapse of USSR there was no need to worry about American working class and pay them livable wages + benefits.

Quote:
Nope. Oligarchs have managed to control the masses rather well with far less sophisticated spying and propaganda than we have now. Plus I've seen no sign of the sort of courage that would be needed for a revolution. Rather the masses are unwilling to risk *anything* and are confused, divided, heavily distracted, and medicated.
I think more and more Americans are waking up to the fact that something is terribly wrong with our political and economic system. Thanks to Trump and Bernie more and more people are starting to question things. More and more Americans are getting angry and are looking for real change. Obama turned out to be just another empty suit. He sold out his soul to the rich for free membership in a Country Club. Now after 6+ years of lies the Fed is exposed that they are clueless and can't raise rates without imploding this bubble. Yes, just another bubble financed with stolen public money, our taxpayers money.

When it comes to raising rates, the Fed take has always been if not this quarter, the next one, or the next one, or next year, or the next. This has been going on for the last 6+ years. The question I now pose is, will the economic slowdown accelerate given we are in a overextended business cycle already?
 
Old 05-09-2016, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Seattle Area
1,716 posts, read 2,037,899 times
Reputation: 4146
Quote:
Originally Posted by C2BP View Post
Does anyone still believes in this so called recovery?
Yes, since jobs aren't the only thing that defines a recession/recovery.

But, also there are tremendous regional differences. In the PNW, there are far more jobs than can be filled. Companies of all size are struggling to fill positions, and hundreds of new jobs are posted each day.
 
Old 05-09-2016, 09:08 AM
 
8,005 posts, read 7,243,946 times
Reputation: 18170
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post
The best aspect of these rants is that they always increase the demand for medication.
Great for the 'Murican economy.
I plan on boosting the craft brewing industry in the next few minutes.
Let's not jump to conclusions. This could be a simple case of drunk posting.
 
Old 05-09-2016, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,044 posts, read 13,887,772 times
Reputation: 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
When all your available choices suck, that isn't freedom.
so... what's your point?
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