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I've been thinking a lot lately, too, about the American Dream. I heard somewhere recently that most Americans no longer think the American Dream is attainable. I think that's ludicrous. People are coming here by the millions to try to get away from poverty into a better life (immigration issues and controversies aside). The problem today is that the "American Dream" used to be so much simpler. People were easier to satisfy. My grandparents were born during the depression, then lived through WWII. In the 1950's my grandfather built his house, modest, 3 bedroom/ 1 bath, very nice and well built but not extravagant. They raised their family there and lived in that house until they died, grandma just passed in 2015. The house still had the original kitchen in impeccable shape, nothing was ever remodeled, carpeting was occasionally replaced and paint was freshened from time to time, other than that they were content. Grandpa was a very hard worker and had the same job forever, they grew big gardens, grandma canned what they grew. They wintered in Florida when they were older, but were modest people with simple tastes. They drove the same cars forever and kept them in like new condition. They saved up a lot of money.
Expectations are not the same today. People used to be happy and content with just a roof over their heads and a steady job. The depression taught them to be thankful for the little things, not to take anything for granted. Our quest to do "better" and "have more" than our parents and grandparents did has made us greedy and dissatisfied. Our economy is so challenging today, for all of the reasons stated in this thread ... but the truth is, if you have a house and a job, you ARE living the American Dream! I'm so thankful my grandparents lived that example, it keeps me grounded.
Last edited by SouthernProper; 09-16-2017 at 09:16 AM..
I've been thinking a lot lately, too, about the American Dream. I heard somewhere recently that most Americans no longer think the American Dream is attainable. I think that's ludicrous. People are coming here by the millions to try to get away from poverty into a better life (immigration issues and controversies aside). The problem today is that the "American Dream" used to be so much simpler. People were easier to satisfy. My grandparents were born during the depression, then lived through WWII. In the 1950's my grandfather built his house, modest, 3 bedroom/ 1 bath, very nice and well built but not extravagant. They raised their family there and lived in that house until they died, grandma just passed in 2015. The house still had the original kitchen in impeccable shape, nothing was ever remodeled, carpeting was occasionally replaced and paint was freshened from time to time, other than that they were content. Grandpa was a very hard worker and had the same job forever, they grew big gardens, grandma canned what they grew. They wintered in Florida when they were older, but were modest people with simple tastes. They drove the same cars forever and kept them in like new condition. They saved up a lot of money.
Expectations are not the same today. People used to be happy and content with just a roof over their heads and a steady job. The depression taught them to be thankful for the little things, not to take anything for granted. Our quest to do "better" and "have more" than our parents and grandparents did has made us greedy and dissatisfied. Our economy is so challenging today, for all of the reasons stated in this thread ... but the truth is, if you have a house and a job, you ARE living the American Dream! I'm so thankful my grandparents lived that example, it keeps me grounded.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying. However, I think that the single family home in the suburbs (e.g. 1950s or 1960s 3 bedroom/1 bath) was luxury in those days. Many from under-educated, working class families lived in tenements or multi-family type homes in industrial cities around in the 30s and 40s. For the kids that grew up in this environment, owning their own home with some land and a car was a dramatic improvement. I think that many remained living modest lives by today's standards and stayed in their homes grateful to break out of poverty and now firmly middle class.
I believe that others, particularly those who went on to get educated on the GI Bill did become much more extravagant over the decades that followed. Ages vary but let's say those who reached the ages 40s/50s in the 1980s. They became the next generation of executives, or their medical or legal practices became well established, etc. This created a huge wave of "trade up" executive type homes in the 1980s and/or major additions/renovations. Swimming pools and European cars became very popular. Tennis, golf, travel and other leisure pursuits previously reserved for higher classes also became normal for these 'new money' types. I think the 1980s were also a time when envy became more prevalent. In the 50s-60s, this peer group was pretty uniform in living standard (3 bed/1 bath again). But earnings and power favored some over others and that peer group became more disparate in lifestyles as some careers grew and others didn't. Just my view but I think that prior to that generation, there was less envy because it was the upper classes who had the money. But around the 1980s, people from all different backgrounds were becoming well off, leading to more of a feeling of 'why him and not me'.
I'm not sure if this belongs in economics or not ... and maybe it has already been discussed ... but here goes anyway. So, I'm 42 years old ... grew up in the late 70's and 80's. Who else has noticed a huge decline in the quality of goods?
Why did woodwork/furniture/houses used to be so ornate, well built, sturdy, heavy, made to last for generations? Now houses are slapped together, builder grade basic low end fixtures, cookie cutter vanilla, as cheap as possible, with no pride of workmanship. People are forced to buy low quality in order to be able to afford anything.
Toilet paper is thin, small rolls
Towels used to last for 20 years! Now they fray after one year and still cost a fortune.
Vintage (70's and earlier) sheets were so much nicer! Now we have to pay over $100 to get one nice quality set ... over $300 for premium quality! When did they get so expensive, and why?
Pizza Hut, Dominos, and Little Caesar's used to be SO GOOD when I was a kid! Our local pizzeria was amazing ... it closed. Sometime in the 90's LC downgraded, now take out pizza is much lower quality and tastes like cardboard.
**********
Is it laziness? Lack of pride in workmanship and skill? Greed and the bottom line? Someone please explain this to me. It's so frustrating trying to maintain a household with 5 children and everything they need, while remembering what life used to be like, and wondering what the heck happened.
As someone who has consulted in the furniture biz for quite a while, I can tell you this: All markets eventually divide into two separate camps: Low Cost and High Value.
Furniture is a good example. It used to be that furniture, once bought, was practically considered to be a family heirloom. It was a considerable investment. Once established, then those pieces were permanent fixtures.
But change has been a constant in decor over the past generation. People are constantly refreshing their decor and moving. So furniture has come to be seen as less a permanent part of a household's life and more as disposable based on the homeowner's needs at the moment.
The same is true for the aforementioned towels. You don't buy towels in most places based on their longevity. You buy them based on how well they match your decor, which will change in 2-3 years.
Clothes? Fashions change all the time. The entire fashion industry relies on changing tastes. So that blouse you buy this year doesn't need to last five years because it will look hopelessly out of date in two. Mind you, this is more a problem for women than men chiefly because, with the exception of the wideness of ties, men's fashions do not change nearly as rapidly. I've owned the same blue blazer for 15 years now and it still holds up. You can't say that about anything in my wife's closet.
Mind you, there are consumer goods that do last. But you have to pay for them. Sometimes it's an investment. Sometimes it's a matter of where you shop. If you are going to Wal-Mart or Target, don't be looking for products that will last a long time. It's not in their interest to sell them.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying. However, I think that the single family home in the suburbs (e.g. 1950s or 1960s 3 bedroom/1 bath) was luxury in those days. Many from under-educated, working class families lived in tenements or multi-family type homes in industrial cities around in the 30s and 40s. For the kids that grew up in this environment, owning their own home with some land and a car was a dramatic improvement. I think that many remained living modest lives by today's standards and stayed in their homes grateful to break out of poverty and now firmly middle class.
I believe that others, particularly those who went on to get educated on the GI Bill did become much more extravagant over the decades that followed. Ages vary but let's say those who reached the ages 40s/50s in the 1980s. They became the next generation of executives, or their medical or legal practices became well established, etc. This created a huge wave of "trade up" executive type homes in the 1980s and/or major additions/renovations. Swimming pools and European cars became very popular. Tennis, golf, travel and other leisure pursuits previously reserved for higher classes also became normal for these 'new money' types. I think the 1980s were also a time when envy became more prevalent. In the 50s-60s, this peer group was pretty uniform in living standard (3 bed/1 bath again). But earnings and power favored some over others and that peer group became more disparate in lifestyles as some careers grew and others didn't. Just my view but I think that prior to that generation, there was less envy because it was the upper classes who had the money. But around the 1980s, people from all different backgrounds were becoming well off, leading to more of a feeling of 'why him and not me'.
Anyway, I find this stuff very interesting.
Great post. "Keeping up with the Joneses". Trading up homes. Can you explain how the GI Bill factored into it?
Things surely were (and still are) much more difficult for single parents, inner city families. My grandparents were born, raised, lived and died in the same small town. Their house didn't even need any remodeling in my opinion, I would have moved in and lived it simply because my grandpa built it and all of my memories there. But after grandma died the house sold to a wealthy relative who tore out the old and put in the modern. It's heartbreaking. But that's the disposable world we live in now. If we have a house, we want a better one. HGTV and House Hunters drives me crazy! The materialism.
The bottom line? The bottom line is the lowest price possible. Mass production for retailers depends on keeping labor costs low which entails the consequence of sacrificing on quality to keep the cost of consumer goods low. It's keeping prices low for the masses which entails reducing the cost of labor AND material quality. This is the reality of the mass production world. Handmade and High end products have always been high end priced and out of the reach of the poor and low income worker. But the bottom end on mass produced goods keeps going lower to maintain the same lowest level of pricing. It's like dancing the limbo! How low can you go! Blue collar folks can still get a pair of blue jeans for 20 dollars, just like they could in 1970 - it's just that they have to be prepared to sacrifice quality for that same price. Or... they can make their own clothes.
An ordinary wool business suit in 1900 would have cost about 2 week's wages for an ordinary worker: 20-30 dollars. An ordinary synthetic suit today would also cost the ordinary worker about 1/2 week's wages - maybe 200-300 dollars. But the ordinary 1900 suit would have been much better quality and thus cost thrice as much today. .
I don't believe that the only choices are products built and priced for mass consumption, though. There's high-quality furniture out there. The OP didn't mention price; the OP's inquiry is about where to find the good stuff.
And some suggestions have been provided; the Ethan Allan brand, Shaker furniture. There's a furniture factory in Berkeley, CA, called Berkeley Mills, that offers several styles, including Asian-style furniture and built-ins for Bay Area homes, for people who like the Japanese tansu look. There have got to be local workshops similar to that, around the country. There are also Asian furniture stores that import fine furniture from Asia, both used, antique and new. There are still a few that import fine rosewood furniture.
These are niche markets. This is the kind of furniture you buy once, use for the rest of your life, and pass down to your kids, for another lifetime of use. You won't find these things by cruising furniture stores downtown or at the mall. How seriously have you really looked, OP?
P.S. Led Zep: as to suits, the cost of those tailored wool suits, and silk suits, is why Hong Kong tailors set up business in cities like San Francisco and NYC back in the 1960's. They do a brisk business. It brings the cost WAY down, and the client gets custom-tailored suits.
I don't believe that the only choices are products built and priced for mass consumption, though. There's high-quality furniture out there. The OP didn't mention price; the OP's inquiry is about where to find the good stuff.
And some suggestions have been provided; the Ethan Allan brand, Shaker furniture. There's a furniture factory in Berkeley, CA, called Berkeley Mills, that offers several styles, including Asian-style furniture and built-ins for Bay Area homes, for people who like the Japanese tansu look. There have got to be local workshops similar to that, around the country. There are also Asian furniture stores that import fine furniture from Asia, both used, antique and new. There are still a few that import fine rosewood furniture.
These are niche markets. This is the kind of furniture you buy once, use for the rest of your life, and pass down to your kids, for another lifetime of use. You won't find these things by cruising furniture stores downtown or at the mall. How seriously have you really looked, OP?
P.S. Led Zep: as to suits, the cost of those tailored wool suits, and silk suits, is why Hong Kong tailors set up business in cities like San Francisco and NYC back in the 1960's. They do a brisk business. It brings the cost WAY down, and the client gets custom-tailored suits.
This is true. I consulted for years for a company that sold high-end outdoor furniture, pieces that started at $3,500 and went as high as $10,000. This wasn't the stuff you would stroll into Lowe's or Home Depot to buy. You would go to a store that specialized in higher end pieces.
As someone who has consulted in the furniture biz for quite a while, I can tell you this: All markets eventually divide into two separate camps: Low Cost and High Value.
Furniture is a good example. It used to be that furniture, once bought, was practically considered to be a family heirloom. It was a considerable investment. Once established, then those pieces were permanent fixtures.
But change has been a constant in decor over the past generation. People are constantly refreshing their decor and moving. So furniture has come to be seen as less a permanent part of a household's life and more as disposable based on the homeowner's needs at the moment.
The same is true for the aforementioned towels. You don't buy towels in most places based on their longevity. You buy them based on how well they match your decor, which will change in 2-3 years.
Clothes? Fashions change all the time. The entire fashion industry relies on changing tastes. So that blouse you buy this year doesn't need to last five years because it will look hopelessly out of date in two. Mind you, this is more a problem for women than men chiefly because, with the exception of the wideness of ties, men's fashions do not change nearly as rapidly. I've owned the same blue blazer for 15 years now and it still holds up. You can't say that about anything in my wife's closet.
Mind you, there are consumer goods that do last. But you have to pay for them. Sometimes it's an investment. Sometimes it's a matter of where you shop. If you are going to Wal-Mart or Target, don't be looking for products that will last a long time. It's not in their interest to sell them.
I'll agree with you that low cost and high value are two main categories. It's worth noting, that depending on use, low cost goods can be a better value. I can a reasonable Seiko watch every year on the interest I would earn on what a high end watch would cost. And even the cheapest kids clothes I've bought will make it through two girls worth of use before they become too small (or become hopelessly stained).
There's also a third category, at least, of high status goods. Watches, cars, clothes all have these.
The U.S. has turned into a mass production, disposable society. I've lived 79 yrs now and NEVER owned a bath sheet. Towels have worked all my life. And one can still find good quality at good prices.
I still own and it hardly has a scratch on it, my bedroom furniture my ex and I purchased from "the factory" in the early 60's...solid as a rock cherry wood and just beautiful. I try not to think what will happen to this beautiful furniture when I'm gone.
That expression "the good old days" holds a lot of truth as I can compare the old times and today.
As far as the American Dream, it's become the nightmare in Cal for apt dwellers. Affording an apt is a major issue. One can still buy a "cheap" house in PA and OH and parts of the midwest.
I agree with the complaints about tool quality. Craftsman in particular has gone to h*** since their factories moved from the US to China.
Ten years ago, I moved into a new construction home and immediately developed life-threatening allergies. After several hospitalizations and gutting my kitchen, it became apparent that I had a reaction to something in the made-in-China particle board or Formica of the contractor-grade cabinets, although a platoon of allergists couldn't identify the exact substance. The cabinets were replaced with custom-made ones of real wood, the Formica with real stone, and the varnish with no-VOC finishes, and I was >90% better overnight. Note that if better quality stuff had been used initially, it would have cost far less to me and to the environment than a remodel several years later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by foundapeanut
You can still buy quality items but they are costly. There are plenty of custom furniture places one can order from. We just redid our house and I had no issues finding stuff. If you are serious about knowing them, PM me with what you are looking for. This stuff is NOT cheap, if you aren't prepared to spend thousands on an item, you get what you pay for.
Custom furniture isn't exponentially expensive, nor were my kitchen cabinets. Several years ago, I bought a 50" television which was "big screen" to me, and it and my 20-year stereo system needed a larger home. The Walmart version of a big entertainment center was $499, which I couldn't buy anyway due to the particle board allergy issue, the local furniture store had a wood version which wobbled and whose doors didn't hang evenly for $1500, and I ordered an excellent-quality, custom-made cabinet in the exact size I wanted from a business 35 miles away for $1900. Not affordable to many, I suppose, but not the exclusive province of the 1%-ers either. And guess what, no allergic reactions to it.
It's easy to find custom woodcrafters, at least where I live, but a tailor or seamstress is nowhere to be found. So unless I want to sew my own clothing (I don't), I'm stuck with the ever-declining quality even at places like Lands End and LL Bean.
As for towels, I got tired of the **** now sold at Penney's, BB&B, and Macy's, and splurged on a set of Abyss for $1100. They should last the rest of my life. I only wish I'd done this 10 years ago instead of throwing my money away on junk with a 2-year lifespan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernProper
People used to be happy and content with just a roof over their heads and a steady job. The depression taught them to be thankful for the little things, not to take anything for granted. Our quest to do "better" and "have more" than our parents and grandparents did has made us greedy and dissatisfied. Our economy is so challenging today, for all of the reasons stated in this thread truth...
I don't know if this is greed. Around 100-150 years ago, people used to struggle just to get a secure home and adequate food. Many of the real challenges in most of our lives have now been removed. I think we still strive to make our lives better, but we have nothing left to focus on except mundane things.
I'll agree with you that low cost and high value are two main categories. It's worth noting, that depending on use, low cost goods can be a better value. I can a reasonable Seiko watch every year on the interest I would earn on what a high end watch would cost. And even the cheapest kids clothes I've bought will make it through two girls worth of use before they become too small (or become hopelessly stained).
There's also a third category, at least, of high status goods. Watches, cars, clothes all have these.
That's a good point. It makes zero sense to buy a Rolex or a Bentley based on value alone. A Lexus will do the job of a Bentley, cost far less, and will likely prove more durable. At some point, there are indeed diminishing returns.
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