A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment in most of the US (sell, taxes)

[TaxPhd]

Federal minimum wage is $7.25/hour. Four unrelated people living together and each working full time earning minimum wage would earn a “family” income of over $60,000. A family of four can live on $60,000/year (including housing) in a great many parts of the US.

The entire premise of this thread is ridiculous.

[TaxPhd]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

You forgot buying back their own stock, which far exceeds the whopping 2.6% salary increase wage earners received from the tax plan.


https://www.thestreet.com/investing/...onomy-14613720

You say that like it’s a bad thing. What’s wrong with a company buying back their stock?

[Rocko20]

Anyone with an average IQ has more than enough brain power to do something in society that demands more than the minimum wage.

Which means if you are working a minimum wage job, its is 100% your choice and your fault.

The world owes us nothing and the poor Indian on an H1-B visa gunning for your job at a fraction of the salary so he can send the rest of his family here, damn sure doesn't feel sorry for you. He laughs at you. So if you aren't making enough money it's your own fault.

[Cloudy Dayz]

Originally Posted by saibot

Now, I know times have changed, but I started working for minimum wage in 1984. I made $3.35/hour. Granted, I wasn't working full time at that point, but the idea that anyone could live independently on $3.35/hour never crossed my mind. Minimum wage jobs were for teens going through school, not for educated adults. When and at what point did people decide that they should be able to support themselves and possibly a family as well on minimum wage??

I started working for minimum wage in 1973, when I was a teenager. I made $2.00 an hour. Adjusted for inflation that is $11.36 in today's dollars. The current minimum wage in that state is $8.30 an hour. As a teenager at my first job I got paid considerably more in 1973, than millions of adults do today. That is how bad the situation is getting.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by TaxPhd

And employees are trying to earn as much as they can. And it is the interplay of those supply/demand forces that create market wages.

It’s a wonderful thing!

And when will all that free market magic start? Employees got a 2.6% pay raise and Corporations have saved 1.6 trillion from the tax cuts, most of which went to stock buybacks.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...porate-america

[galaxyhi]

Originally Posted by jm1982

As another poster said people get roommates or they live with family .
Where did it say minimum wage was created so that single people could live alone without roommates right in the city ?


I’d like to see minimum wage be abolished . I know the pro min wage crowd always screaches
“but then employers will only pay $1 an hour !”

Well if someone only values their time at $1 an hour let them work for that .

In reality nobody would accept $1 hr an hour . Wages should be based on the demand for the labor and value of the labor . Not an arbitrary number like $15 hr like the idiot politicians in CA and elsewhere have decided .

I agree.
I USED to say raise the minimum wage when it was up for debate. But about 2 decades ago I started saying "no".

People won't work for chump change, they'll work for a more prevailing wage.

The unfortunate part is that many employers have this attitude that all they have to pay is minimum. That, as noted above was to provide basic subsistence, not to live on.

If people stood up and refused to work for $7.25 / hr, then they'd have to pay a more reasonable wage.

But alas, the politicians won't do anything but argue over whether it should be raised or not, and gloat that they got it raised to garner poor votes.

No one on N.Y. state woukd work for 7.25/ now. It's $10.40 for upstate non fast food workers, and soon it will be $15.

But people may be getting $12/hr if there was no minimum, or if minimum was stock at early 1980s level of what, $3.25?

Leave if alone and people won't work for cheap. For businesses that rely on people, they won't be in business long if theycan't find workers for too low wages.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by TaxPhd

You say that like it’s a bad thing. What’s wrong with a company buying back their stock?

What's good about it? It doesn't grow the company, increase the number of employees, result in wage increases or more benefits to employees, it contributes to wage stagnation and consolidates ownership into fewer hands making the principles of the corporation far richer than they would have been if compensation was based on profitability

[verybadgnome]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

A large number of once full time jobs with benefits have been replaced with part time, temp or contract employees.

Is the Rise of Contract Workers Killing Upward Mobility? - Knowledge@Wharton

America's part-time problem may be permanent

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ees-in-the-us/

Most economists state that only about 18% of contract employees ever transition to full time direct hires.

And as far as your bootstrapping theory, there are plenty of people who have worked hard and are still stuck in crappy jobs. https://money.howstuffworks.com/boot...-hard-work.htm

My BIL makes over $50/hr doing contract work.

It is not just working hard but also working smart.

My family took in three Vietnamese men when I was a kid. Those guys came here with almost nothing and very limited English vocabularies. Two of them became successful, one owning a restaurant, while the third one got into hard drugs. I don’t buy the notion that it is too hard, or even that a secondary education is mandatory for success.

A bigger hinderance for those at the bottom are lack of life skills to go along with job skills and bad habits passed on to them by their parents than anything structural in our economy. Right now there is a welder in sub Saharan Africa, Russia, Venezuela, etc. wishing he could come here so he could be paid the prevailing wage (union or not) for that occupation.

[rodentraiser]

Originally Posted by nmnita

and what is so hard for some to understand? Min wage jobs were never expected to be the main source of income. They are for kids just entering the work force, moms who want to pick up a few extra bucks each week and regular workers who,for whatever reason need to work a second job on a part time basis. Of cours the min wage isn't going to support even a single person.

Again, for those who can't or won't read anything:

F.D.R. Makes the Case for the Minimum Wage

“By living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level — I mean the wages of a decent living.” (1933, Statement on National Industrial Recovery Act)


https://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com...mum-wage/?_r=0

Originally Posted by Copymutt

Cut to the chase here.
Note:I've not read the posts so you can tell me to bug off.
The picture as I see it.
Minimum wage jobs are for kids that have no skills, i.e. Baby sitting, flipping burgers. sweeping floors.
Do not expect to survive on such wages, that's not remotely possible and you can not complain that it's not a living wage. Get educated, get experienced, get paid accordingly

Don't bug off. Just read and learn.

Originally Posted by SportyandMisty

FDR also said there should be no public sector unions or collective bargaining. FDR also presided over the launch of the biggest Ponzi scheme ever.

And that has what to do with my response to people who say minimum wage wasn't enacted to support a person?

Originally Posted by jm1982

Maybe John and Jane should be spending time learning how to increase income versus entertainment/procreating .

It’s about thinking more long term . It’s not easy to improve one’s life , but it’s not impossible .
Also why no birth control ? If they couldn’t afford it I’m sure there are ways to get it free no ?..

Why doesn't jm1982 understand there is a failure rate for every kind of birth control?

Originally Posted by jm1982

Not every landlord is raising rents 10-15 percent a year .
Believe It or not most want to keep their tenants long term because turnover is very costly .

LMAO. No, my landlord raised my rent approximately 78% in one year.

Originally Posted by Mircea

The phrase "decent living" is highly subjective.

Can you define "decent living" objectively in no uncertain terms?

I thought Hitpausebutton2 described it pretty well:


When min wage was introduced, it was designed to keep employers from paying chunk change to employees and establish a wage that a person needs for basic living. Basic living includes food and shelter. Now what is consider modest in today standards is a apt with working appliances, no holes in the wall and in a safe area... Min wage was base on single person to live in something safe and secure, not a box on side of the street.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage

That only proves that you can re-post cherry-picked data from propagandists and disinformation artists.

Why don't you tell us about minimum wage in 1964?

Is there something wrong with the year 1964?

Is there something wrong with the year 1975?

from Cloudy Dayz: "I started working for minimum wage in 1973, when I was a teenager. I made $2.00 an hour. Adjusted for inflation that is $11.36 in today's dollars. The current minimum wage in that state is $8.30 an hour. As a teenager at my first job I got paid considerably more in 1973, than millions of adults do today. That is how bad the situation is getting."

Like Coudy Dayz, in 1975 I was making $2 an hour and could support myself renting a one bedroom apartment. That apartment cost me $125 a month. Suppose, just suppose, one bedroom apartments are $1000 a month now (in my area, they're actually running about $1200 a month). That means rent went up by a factor or 8. If minimum wage had gone up a factor of 8, it would now be $16 an hour. NOW do you understand why people making minimum wage have fallen behind? We're talking about raising minimum wage to $15 an hour in the next couple of years! Care to bet what a one bedroom apartment will rent for then?

They can afford a 2-bedroom apartment in Cincinnati.

2-bedroom apartments start at $367/month.

These are nice 2-bedrooms costing only $495/month:


That totally refutes your baseless claim.

Riiiight. $367 is the average rent all right. In what universe? I was paying $545 a month for a two bedroom in 2001, for crying out loud. What you're saying is Stephen Hawking was a mathematical genius because he knew math, and anyone can learn math, so anyone can be a genius like Stephen Hawking.

One aberration does not a rule make. There are houses for sale for $10,000 in Detroit, too. Care to move there? And what you're forgetting to say is that where housing is cheap, jobs are scarce and usually low-paying, too.

Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2

Problem is min cant get you in simple housing due to the 3x your wage requirements.

Bingo. Pay attention to this one, folks.

I had close to $40,000 to spend. Although I decided not to move into a mobile home park, I would had a hard time doing that anyway even if I wanted to. Oh, I could have bought a nice mobile home for about $20,000 and had money left over, but I can't begin to count how many parks stated in their ads that anyone who moved in was subject to a background check, a credit check, and would be required to be making 3 times the amount of the lot rent, which in this area is anywhere from $400 to $700 a month.

And mobile home parks aren't the only places where they have that rule. Where does that leave someone like me?


unnamed because my answer is directed to a whole bunch of you

Which means if you are working a minimum wage job, its is 100% your choice and your fault.

Ah, the old famous "it's their fault" line. What would you guys do without it?

Here's what you really mean: by saying it's their fault if other people don't make enough money, what you're really saying is that in your opinion, people in service jobs aren't worth anything and you don't think they deserve the right to a decent living wage.

Yes, it's the personal fault of anyone if they can't get ahead these days. Illness only strikes bad people, bad luck only happens to bad people, kids who are born to parents who don't care about their future are bad kids, kids who are born on reservations where there isn't electricity are bad kids, anyone who makes one single mistake in their life is a bad person. Because we all know what wonderful people the higher caste is, the ones who always made the right choices and who never, ever made a mistake in their entire lives.

Personally, I think you all want the rest of us to just kneel and kiss your rings.

[Roboteer]

A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment in most of the US


Sounds about right.