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But, there is nothing stopping US from creating/building our own Corporations that are better, more efficient, less bloated, innovative, more socially conscious as the old guards crumble from their own weight.
I actually see a lot of opportunities cropping up as the old guards are faltering.
-chuck22b
I beg to differ.......While I absolutly agree with your overall view, the fact is..over the past decade in particular, there has been so much legislation passed that makes it damn near impossible for any upstart to establish any type of competing manufacturing or service industry in the USA to compete with the established mega corps. I say this as a small corporate "owner" myself, that has found my ability to make a buck eroded away by new EPA laws, higher and higher licensing fees, for things that didnt even require licenses only a few years back. I've seen this in my field, and many others, as well.
This accomplishes two things, 1)the guy that wants to do something for himself finds he cannot get the materials to do it, because purchasing them now requires a license, or doesnt meet the safety standards, or isnt "green", so he is beholden to go to the guy(big corporation) to be bent over to(and) have it done for(too) him.
2) The big corporations that have the upfront $$$ dont mind the cost to lobby for these "laws". Their ROI is insured as soon as the common folk, and any smaller concern is priced out of being able to afford the legal fees, impact fees, insurance regulations, govt guidelines, etc, etc, etc,
Think I'm joking? go try to start a business that would directly compete with any of the long established big guys around, you got a rude awakening coming.....
I actually see a lot of opportunities cropping up as the old guards are faltering.
Me too. Time will tell wether or not we exercise the will to take advantage of the opportunities at hand.
yachtcare wrote:
the guy that wants to do something for himself finds he cannot get the materials to do it
Maybe it's time for the guy that wants to do something for himself, to put his ego aside and start doing something for the good of society as a whole. The day of the rugged individual looking out for his own interests is hopefully coming to an end.
i certainly don't understand the stupidity of pumping american taxpayer dollars, after losing 4 billion taxpayer dollars on the failed chrysler save, to pump up an ITALIAN car maker, while they put up zero equity of their own. our government seems hellbent on finding ways to help and prop up other countries at the expense of american workers. i remember when they wanted the money they said that the country would collapse if chrysler was not saved and had to declare bankruptcy, yet here we are at the inevitable bankruptcy and stocks actually rose today. (our stock market manipulation is a whole other issue of course).
fiat's acronym is "fix it again, tony!". will we now be using american taxpayer dollars to pump up foreign car markets? (i might also suggest that this is american taxpayer money that we don't actually have since we now have a negative GDP)
So we gave them money like 2 or 3 times..each time they came back with their hand out and no plan.
Stupid, stupid, stupid. All these bailouts are rewarding the stupid companies while the good solid companies lose customers, employees, the business themselves because of the fallout of the bad companies and our government wants to keep them alive ?
I shake my head and wonder...America has become so corrupt.
Yes, the small business owners who work their butts off everyday just to make payroll are being allowed to fail. Small businesses employ most of the workers in the US but get no real consideration because they are not able to be controlled as the mega corporations are by the feds. Big corporations+Big unions = BIG Government. Its time to throw all career politians out, both Dems & Reps. As I have said before, all these people belong to the same exclusive country clubs, eat at the same expensive restaurants, attend all the same social parties and their spoiled brats all attend the same private, exclusive schools.
I beg to differ.......While I absolutly agree with your overall view, the fact is..over the past decade in particular, there has been so much legislation passed that makes it damn near impossible for any upstart to establish any type of competing manufacturing or service industry in the USA to compete with the established mega corps. I say this as a small corporate "owner" myself, that has found my ability to make a buck eroded away by new EPA laws, higher and higher licensing fees, for things that didnt even require licenses only a few years back. I've seen this in my field, and many others, as well.
This accomplishes two things, 1)the guy that wants to do something for himself finds he cannot get the materials to do it, because purchasing them now requires a license, or doesnt meet the safety standards, or isnt "green", so he is beholden to go to the guy(big corporation) to be bent over to(and) have it done for(too) him.
2) The big corporations that have the upfront $$$ dont mind the cost to lobby for these "laws". Their ROI is insured as soon as the common folk, and any smaller concern is priced out of being able to afford the legal fees, impact fees, insurance regulations, govt guidelines, etc, etc, etc,
Think I'm joking? go try to start a business that would directly compete with any of the long established big guys around, you got a rude awakening coming.....
Yea, I hear you and I understand your frustrations. But as we can see with the collapse of some of the big boys... their over inefficiency and decades of mal-practices and poor decisions have caught up with them.
Rules and new regulations can only be bent so far in favor of mass inefficiencies and improper allocation of resources/capital (towards legislation and crony capitalism vs. actual innovation).
The Oil companies and some of the other companies with mass tax payer subsidies and favorable rules may also see the day of the dinosaur if they do not innovate.
Hence, even though they try, without fail, some of the big boys will still fail. And that, brings opportunity to the little guys.
Ok, so now that the hype is over... can we liquidate them (ie, all the inefficient, over leveraged companies, banks, etc.)? in some orderly bankruptcies instead of propping them up until govco over leverages itself and taxes the populace?
Liquidating the banks right now may cause the collapse of the financial system, I think it would be a rather unwise move. The markets are ready for the auto makers to go bankrupt, but not the major banks.
Unless you are fine with the economy and financial system collapsing, then advocating that the government liquidate the major banks does not make much sense. A premature bankruptcy at the auto makers just "may have" created a lot of problems, a premature bankruptcy with the major banks would most certainly cause major problems.
After the major bank failed, the FED/treasury would either have to act fast to keep the markets alive or let them completely fail. The former is likely to cost more, the latter will destroy a lot of people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck22b
By weeding out those who are over leveraged, inefficient, and letting them fail, that would bring abouts more competition and thus capital will seek out those best suited for a new economy less based on credit and more on productive resources.
Again its an issue of strategy. If you just let everything fail at once the economy will collapse and the great depression will look like fun.
If you are okay with that, than fine. Just understand what you're advocating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck22b
I could almost guarantee you if some of the big boys dissipate, a lot of new competitors perhaps smaller but more of them would pop up. It's a power vacuum ... and if there's a need for that service or product, it will be filled.
The issue has never been whether other companies would come in sooner or later and take their place. The issue is the effects the bankruptcy would have on the markets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck22b
Perhaps with Crysler, or GM, or some other company gone... we'd probably see alt-energy vehicles on the road sooner.
Chrysler and GM did not prevent alt-energy vehicles, rather Americans did. Americans have a love affair with large gasoline driven cars.
I beg to differ.......While I absolutly agree with your overall view, the fact is..over the past decade in particular, there has been so much legislation passed that makes it damn near impossible for any upstart to establish any type of competing manufacturing or service industry in the USA to compete with the established mega corps. I say this as a small corporate "owner" myself, that has found my ability to make a buck eroded away by new EPA laws.....
This is often the case, but these companies do get challenged. Once a new company gets sufficiently large they can start challenging other companies.
Often these sorts of companies develop off the radar of established interests. I think Google is a good example. Nobody really understood it and by the time they understood the power they had it was too late, they were already too big.
Liquidating the banks right now may cause the collapse of the financial system, I think it would be a rather unwise move. The markets are ready for the auto makers to go bankrupt, but not the major banks.
Unless you are fine with the economy and financial system collapsing, then advocating that the government liquidate the major banks does not make much sense. A premature bankruptcy at the auto makers just "may have" created a lot of problems, a premature bankruptcy with the major banks would most certainly cause major problems.
After the major bank failed, the FED/treasury would either have to act fast to keep the markets alive or let them completely fail. The former is likely to cost more, the latter will destroy a lot of people.
Again its an issue of strategy. If you just let everything fail at once the economy will collapse and the great depression will look like fun.
If you are okay with that, than fine. Just understand what you're advocating.
The issue has never been whether other companies would come in sooner or later and take their place. The issue is the effects the bankruptcy would have on the markets.
Chrysler and GM did not prevent alt-energy vehicles, rather Americans did. Americans have a love affair with large gasoline driven cars.
So, when should they liquidate them? Or should we prop them up indefinitely? and let them restart the cycle?
The issue is about the monetary system itself and how much weight the large banks have as the system unfolds (deleveraging) which is cascaded throughout our economy and the world.
I understand the difficulty and I know it's not simply just let them fail. The problem is that there doesn't seem like there is a plan or "exit" strategy per say in terms of government involvement (although I'm sure there is in the background). Like I said, "orderly" bankruptcy, perhaps separate out the viable units from the financial units and start breaking things apart. That is what bankruptcy is designed for.
At this point, I think people have already priced in (with coverage ratios and reserves like the banks have been bulking up with) for some sort of orderly breakup/bankruptcy.
As far as cars go... it's a matter of costs/choice and affordability. Without large amounts of credit - Americans more than likely can't maintain a love affair with gross oversize vehicles or extreme excesses.
-chuck22b
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instead of propping them up until govco over leverages itself and taxes the populace?
