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Your experiences show some of what's wrong, but they don't prove that it can't be fixed. I completely agree that the "is this graded?" issue is a big one, but by the time the kids have made it to your class they've been thoroughly indoctrinated in that values system. I think we need to be addressing that from the early years onward, including parent education. In my experience, anyway (although this is not as a teacher) the kids who are most likely to ask things like that come from families who do claim to value education; the parents have probably unintentionally been sending the message for years that grades are what matter most, and that good grades are synonymous with a good education. I think the grading issue is part of a larger overall problem, and parents are definitely a major part of both problem and solution.
Again, we're back to the attitude about education being the problem with education in the United States but what do we do about it? I have to deal with the students I have in my classroom and the time I've been given to teach.
We cannot, blindly, copy what other countries do because our attitude about education is so, radically, different, however, we can learn from them if we think. IMO, a longer school year is a starting point. At this point, without a reduction in the number of hours in school because our kids are not conditioned to go home and do their work. We need the extra time in class where kids have the support.
Personally, I'm in favor of mastery learning. A system where students cannot move on without first mastering the material. I'm not sure ungraded systems can work well here. They don't fit our paradigm. We'd need an attitude shift that I don't see coming any time soon where we value education for the sake of being educated. That is, simply, not reality for most of our students. For most, education is seen as a means to an end. Requireing mastery and giving multiple chances to achieve it might take us in the direction we want to go but it has risks as well. Some students will simply not try because they know they can do it again. That's where grading comes in.
I can't remember where I got this link so if I'm reposting something someone posted here, I appologize, but I'm thinking this is the direction we need to go:
Instead of comparing American levels of homework to other countries, why not just look at the copious amount of scholarship out there that shows what works and what doesn't?
I can't find the statistics or links right now, but I've read that many countries with students performing better (as measured, anyway) than American students assign far less homework than do American schools, while there are other countries with higher homework loads that come out much lower than the US on the list. I haven't read this book yet, but the authors address that question.
I used to live in Asia, I know first hand that the majority of South Korean kids went from their "public" schools to additional schooling in science, advanced math, tutoring, etc frequently until 8 pm or later.
In the Philippines, all schools require uniforms, and are basically the same as the US in terms of length of day, number of days and amount of homework.
As I have never lived in Japan here is an article.
Archived:Contemporary Research in the United States, Germany, and Japan on Five Education Issues: Structure of the Education System, Standards in Education, the Role of School in Adolescent's Lives, Individual Differences Among Students, and Teachers (http://www2.ed.gov/pubs/Research5/Japan/structure_j.html - broken link)
To sum up, basically the big difference is all kids go to school for at least 240 days, including at Saturdays. Typical elementary school hours are 8:30 to 4, which is at least an hour longer than most US schools.
Middle school is also 240 days a year with 5-6 hours of instructional time a weekday and an additional half day on saturdays. Similar for high school except the half day on saturday is now at least 4 hours of instructional time.
My high school is considered to have a longer day than a traditional high school 7:45 to 3:00 and has 5.33 instructional hours. My daughters more typical high school goes from 7:20 to 2PM but they have 9 periods each only 40 mins. Take out one for lunch and one for gym and that leaves 4.66 instructional hours for 180ish days.
I think the numbers you were comparing before were off somehow. Since most US high schoolers get 900 instructional hours (assuming 5hrs day/180 days yr) and in Japan for example, they do 5.5 (on average) a day for 240 days, thats 1320. Thats almost 50% more time!!
I think the numbers you were comparing before were off somehow. Since most US high schoolers get 900 instructional hours (assuming 5hrs day/180 days yr) and in Japan for example, they do 5.5 (on average) a day for 240 days, thats 1320. Thats almost 50% more time!!
Here are stats..the US has 140 more hours than Japan:
Kids in the U.S. spend more hours in school (1,146 instructional hours per year) than do kids in the Asian countries that persistently outscore the U.S. on math and science tests -- Singapore (903), Taiwan (1,050), Japan (1,005) and Hong Kong (1,013). That is despite the fact that Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong have longer school years (190 to 201 days) than does the U.S. (180 days).
Here are stats..the US has 140 more hours than Japan:
Kids in the U.S. spend more hours in school (1,146 instructional hours per year) than do kids in the Asian countries that persistently outscore the U.S. on math and science tests -- Singapore (903), Taiwan (1,050), Japan (1,005) and Hong Kong (1,013). That is despite the fact that Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong have longer school years (190 to 201 days) than does the U.S. (180 days).
"[SIZE=3]According to [/SIZE][SIZE=3][SIZE=3]Education Sector[/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=3], instructional hours per year are as follows: Finland, 861; Korea, 1079; Netherlands, 911; Japan, 926; and United States, 799 (Silva, 2007). "[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Same source[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]"[SIZE=3]The world’s average school year is 200 days per year. In the United States it is 180 days per year; in Sweden it is 170 days; in Japan it is 243 days" (Fast Facts, 2006, p. 9). "[/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][SIZE=3][LEFT][/LEFT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][SIZE=3]"Students in the U.S. receive 10 percent fewer instructional hours per year than students in other OECD [Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development] nations" (Silva, 2007). "[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]http://usm.maine.edu/cepare/pdf/Extended_%20Facts.pdf (broken link)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=3][SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE][/SIZE]
I have a very hard time believing your numbers. At 1146 hours per year, allowing for lunch and passing time (30 minutes each), you'd need to have a 191 day school year if you have a 7 hour day (typical here). Or a 7 hour and 20 minute school day if you have a 180 day school year with no half days. You'd be counting days spent taking standarized tests as instructional time as well. Where I am, we have a 184 day school year and a 7 hour day. We teach 6 50 minute periods and one 55 minute period (time for announcements) for just under 6 hour per day. This works out to 1090 hours NOT counting half days, pep assemblies, days the kids are out for standardized testing, snow days, etc, etc, etc... We're, closer to 1000 hours by the time you start counting stuff like that.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-05-2010 at 01:31 PM..
We have too many people having kids that should not have. We are accepting of average. We blame teachers far too much. We also let bad teachers continue to teach.
Here are stats..the US has 140 more hours than Japan:
Kids in the U.S. spend more hours in school (1,146 instructional hours per year) than do kids in the Asian countries that persistently outscore the U.S. on math and science tests -- Singapore (903), Taiwan (1,050), Japan (1,005) and Hong Kong (1,013). That is despite the fact that Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong have longer school years (190 to 201 days) than does the U.S. (180 days).
And I just showed data from a peer reviewed journal that shows Japan actually had over 1300 instructional hours a year.
Your own data 1146 is hours per year in school NOT instructional hours.
Do the math. 1146/180 = 6.36 hrs a day. If it were instructional time you would have to add on two hours for lunch and gym and passing time. Do you really think kids are in school for 8 1/2 hours a day?
Additionally the standard school year in Japan is 240 days a year. Your "source" is flawed.
Another source gives the Japanese secondary school day as 12 hrs when you include extracurricular subjects studied outside of (math, science, etc.) school. Maybe one of the problems is that extracurriculars in this country are rarely if ever academic.
Education Japan | Japan Guide | Japanese School System (http://educationjapan.org/jguide/school_system.html - broken link)
"The classes may run until late, and a 12-hour day is not unusual for the Japanese high school student (before homework)"
But quantity is what works. Do you have any evidence on a statistical par to show that quality of education can produce the results the Asian method of quantity does?
Adding more hours is not the solution. As they say "there's lies, damn lies and statistics." I just posted what I had read in that article.
They had to recalibrate the SAT years ago because scores were getting lower on average.
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/SAT
"The average score was initially designed to be 500 points on each section. However, as the test grew more popular and students from less rigorous schools began taking the test, the average dropped, bottoming out at about 450 for each section."
Hours isn't the problem; we had a good number of science and math students who went on to become engineers and such and send a man to the moon. School hours then were less..9-3 or 4pm with 1 hour for lunch.
IMO I think the problems came about when we mainstreamed all skill levels hoping that would raise the bar for the underachievers. It didn't work so the bar got lowered across the board.
Letting AP and pre-AP classes be open enrollment only waters down the meaning of the goal of those classes.
Fed money is based on how many kids pass and how many show up for school..attendence and promotion. Money is held back if those goals are not achieved so why is anyone surprised that the bar is lowered so that schools can achieve their goals and get their money ?
Educators higher up..not the teachers in the classrooms, need to face the fact that all kids ARE NOT THE SAME and do not learn at the same speed/level. Kids that do well need to be grouped together so they can be challenged. Kids that don't do well need remedial work and additional tutoring/mentoring in the class.
Many schools in European countries have an academic track and a vocational track. We used to have that in the US until they determined that every kid is the same and every kid needs to go to college so every kid is on the academic track. That is the problem that needs to be addressed.
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